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C0llis

Up and down. Bounce all around

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31

Saturday, November 21st 2015, 1:20am

At least until he looks here and starts pulling the stats and charts for his videos.
He wouldn't be able to figure out the "best" gun even if he actually read the stats.

But who needs understanding and facts when you got feels and clickbait style titles?

Things people said

And reading Youtube comments still gives me Turbo Cancer.

It really is quite frustrating when Helen Keller sets up her LMG in the only doorway in/out of an area.

What kind of question is that? Since when is cheese ever a bad idea?

Hardline is a fun and sometimes silly Cops and Robbers sorta thing and I think that's great. Or it would be if it didn't suck.

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32

Saturday, November 21st 2015, 8:13am

I cannot determine a "Best" gun on stats either. Would someone be so Kind and explain me how you came to this conclusion?
still playin' Motorstorm

NoctyrneSAGA

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33

Saturday, November 21st 2015, 8:50am

I cannot determine a "Best" gun on stats either. Would someone be so Kind and explain me how you came to this conclusion?


RT-97C has really good accuracy.

It also has the best damage output past ~27m. As in, heads and shoulders above the rest of the guns. Damage output so grossly above the rest of the weapons, they are made irrelevant DESPITE having superior accuracy. What the RT-97C lacks in accuracy, it makes up with pure saturation. You can throw in MaxSpread and MaxHrecoil values that are really fucking good to the mix, guaranteeing that there is some minimum level of accuracy that will never be breached. Add in the Active Reload system (courtesy of Gears of War) and you have pretty much no penalty for firing continuously.

This used to be what the DLT-19 was in the Alpha and Beta. It has since seen a damage model nerf, SIPS nerf, and minspread nerf while maintaining its high Hrec values. That seat is now handily occupied by the RT-97C which has higher SIPS, but very good minspread and Hrecoil.

I think an acceptable comparison would be you wielding the MG4 Stubby Grip while the rest of the players run around with the FN-57.
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Miffyli

Symthic Developer

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  • "Miffyli" started this thread

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34

Saturday, November 21st 2015, 12:08pm

I got mail about damage not being constant througout the shots. Apparently first two shots with DH-17 did 25dmg but one after that was only 12dmg. I would try to check this myself but I am away from main computer till next tuesday so if anybody could check this I'd appreciate.

Edit: Resolved. Data is correct for multiplayer.
Links to users' thread list who have made analytical/statistical/mathematical/cool posts on Symthic:
  • 3VerstsNorth - Analysis of game mechanics in BF4 (tickrates, effects of tickrate, etc)
  • InterimAegis - Weapon comparisons/scoring.
  • leptis - Analysis of shotguns, recoil, recoil control and air drag.
  • Veritable - Scoring of BF4/BF1 firearms in terms of usability, firing and other mechanics.
  • pmax - Statistical analysis of BF4 players/games.
  • Miffyli - Random statistical analysis of BF4 battlereports/players and kill-distances. (list is cluttered with other threads).
Sorry if your name wasn't on the list, I honestly can't recall all names : ( . Nudge me if you want to be included

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35

Saturday, November 21st 2015, 12:13pm

RT97C may be less accurate than other blasters, but its range DPS is so high, unless you are completely incompetent, you will get the most on target with it. While it has somewhat inferior DPS at close range, the fact that everyone moves all the time combined with 500 m/s velocity means that a fast firing gun generally yields you a TTK closer to its theoretical minimum. Improving the balance in this case is fairly straightforword, just reduce RT97C max damage and increase the DLT19's instead.

I got mail about damage not being constant througout the shots. Apparently first two shots with DH-17 did 25dmg but one after that was only 12dmg. I would try to check this myself but I am away from main computer till next tuesday so if anybody could check this I'd appreciate.
Interesting.
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Teamwork is where players function by themselves, but their effectiveness is multiplied when they work together. Not a checklist of "did we bring a healer so we can start playing?"

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36

Saturday, November 21st 2015, 3:17pm

I cannot determine a "Best" gun on stats either. Would someone be so Kind and explain me how you came to this conclusion?


RT-97C has really good accuracy.

It also has the best damage output past ~27m. As in, heads and shoulders above the rest of the guns. Damage output so grossly above the rest of the weapons, they are made irrelevant DESPITE having superior accuracy. What the RT-97C lacks in accuracy, it makes up with pure saturation. You can throw in MaxSpread and MaxHrecoil values that are really fucking good to the mix, guaranteeing that there is some minimum level of accuracy that will never be breached. Add in the Active Reload system (courtesy of Gears of War) and you have pretty much no penalty for firing continuously.

This used to be what the DLT-19 was in the Alpha and Beta. It has since seen a damage model nerf, SIPS nerf, and minspread nerf while maintaining its high Hrec values. That seat is now handily occupied by the RT-97C which has higher SIPS, but very good minspread and Hrecoil.

I think an acceptable comparison would be you wielding the MG4 Stubby Grip while the rest of the players run around with the FN-57.


Well, similar to a scientific paper I was more interested in the methodological approach on how you get to your conclusion. I guess your gathered knowledge in statsreading made it very easy for you to track the important facts and see the overall picture very fast, so you dont really think of it any more how you did it. You are just used to it and therefore you quickly determine strength's and weaknesses.

Your arguments have been a good Roadmap though, so they helped me to get a rough idea of the whole weapons. Thanks for that.

I dont know if reducing RT97C max damage is everything. The high DPS on Range still exists then and outclasses EE-3 on Burst Mode.

Btw. since when are Top-Tier weapons called "meta", I thought "alpha" is the trending term for that.
still playin' Motorstorm

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37

Saturday, November 21st 2015, 7:49pm

"Meta" in reference to "playing the metagame" - evaluating statistics and planning for the best (i.e. most efficient/most effective) way to play the game.
Zormau - Battlelog / Battlefield 4

Memorable quotes not taken yet:


Of course, this ignores the non-constant cross-sectional first moment of area across the chest as well as non-constant material properties of the boob; it would be difficult to perform a more detailed analysis (as in, I'd have to have a shape function AND I'd need to derive a function for elastic modulus as a function of lateral breast coordinate) but whatever. It's 2am and I'm lazy.


I always believed science should be very hands on experience.

You should also answer this question I had posed in that thread: Would you be willing to pay your surgeon more if he was going to use a chainsaw for the opening incision of surgery? Clearly using a chainsaw isn't truly suited for surgery but that doesn't really matter. If he's "skilled" enough to be able to use the wrong tools of the trade, he should be rewarded for that skill right?


Aenonar

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38

Saturday, November 21st 2015, 8:02pm

Most Effective Tactic Available

Quoted

(14:06:57) Riesig: I should stop now. People might get sig material again

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39

Sunday, November 22nd 2015, 1:41am

I hate burst weapons in every game. But for some reason i am doing really good with that 5 burst pistol.

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40

Sunday, November 22nd 2015, 2:18am

Yeah I love that one, too. Works well with explosive shots, can kill in one burst, the rhythm suits me quite well, only drops to 10 damage at range (as opposed to the DH-17's lousy 5 damage).

I'm hugely struggling with the EE-3's burst timing. If I click like a madman it bursts quickly enough, but if I try to time it properly there's always a big gap. Odd.

Something notable about the CA-87 shotgun blaster: Its projectiles only have a TTL of 0.1, so they disappear after only 20m. That's closer than the pistols' dropoff start.
Zormau - Battlelog / Battlefield 4

Memorable quotes not taken yet:


Of course, this ignores the non-constant cross-sectional first moment of area across the chest as well as non-constant material properties of the boob; it would be difficult to perform a more detailed analysis (as in, I'd have to have a shape function AND I'd need to derive a function for elastic modulus as a function of lateral breast coordinate) but whatever. It's 2am and I'm lazy.


I always believed science should be very hands on experience.

You should also answer this question I had posed in that thread: Would you be willing to pay your surgeon more if he was going to use a chainsaw for the opening incision of surgery? Clearly using a chainsaw isn't truly suited for surgery but that doesn't really matter. If he's "skilled" enough to be able to use the wrong tools of the trade, he should be rewarded for that skill right?