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  • "Zormau" started this thread

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Wednesday, November 18th 2015, 3:35pm

"The game's mechanics lack depth and are very much casual" - or so they say.

So despite SWBF not being out in Europe yet there have been plenty of opinions expressed from beyond the sea and also in regards to the beta, and one thing that I keep hearing again and again is that "The game is so casual because you can shoot just as accurately while moving and jumping and hipfiring as you could shoot while standing and zooming. This will hugely compress the skill gap." I find that attiture pretty unreasonable in and of itself.

Being forced to go ADS has nothing to do with a game being more hard core (look at Counter-Strike). By that logic, Quake 3 and Unreal Tournament would be very casual shooters, as there's no statistical advantage to using zoom (with most weapons) and standing still either. There are also no classes in those games, and most items have to be picked up from the ground (Quake Live also allows for a small loadout at spawn).

I'd therefore argue that, in those respects, SWBF is actually closer to oldschool shooters than any other Triple-A shooter (aside from maybe Wolfenstein) in recent history.

Of course there are plenty of problems that DICE will have to get a handle on before I deem the game worthy of even 40€ (sale (black friday?) or third party). Allegedly explosives are a bit obnoxious (thermal detonator + impact grenade or barrage plus pickups plus explosive blastershots, DICE have you learned nothing from BF4?) and the partner/party system is sketchy at best. Four planets with four maps (five with Jakku coming up) per mode is a bit lackluster as well, especially since there's no singleplayer mode worth mentioning - takes ~30 minutes in total from what I've seen.

I'd be interested what your takes are on the "casual" arguments and the game in general.
Zormau - Battlelog / Battlefield 4

Memorable quotes not taken yet:


Of course, this ignores the non-constant cross-sectional first moment of area across the chest as well as non-constant material properties of the boob; it would be difficult to perform a more detailed analysis (as in, I'd have to have a shape function AND I'd need to derive a function for elastic modulus as a function of lateral breast coordinate) but whatever. It's 2am and I'm lazy.


I always believed science should be very hands on experience.

You should also answer this question I had posed in that thread: Would you be willing to pay your surgeon more if he was going to use a chainsaw for the opening incision of surgery? Clearly using a chainsaw isn't truly suited for surgery but that doesn't really matter. If he's "skilled" enough to be able to use the wrong tools of the trade, he should be rewarded for that skill right?


ToTheSun!

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Wednesday, November 18th 2015, 3:48pm

I'd be interested what your takes are on the "casual" arguments and the game in general.

My take is that those arguments are supremely irrelevant.

Play the game if you like it or don't play it if you don't like it.

Miffyli

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Wednesday, November 18th 2015, 3:57pm

Talk about accurate


But like Sun said, play it as you like. I for once liked the fact you actually have to be careful of enemies even at the longer range. In BF4 you could most of the time trust that enemies can't hit you at that range if you just zigzag little bit (there were some who could hit you but not nearly as much).
Links to users' thread list who have made analytical/statistical/mathematical/cool posts on Symthic:
  • 3VerstsNorth - Analysis of game mechanics in BF4 (tickrates, effects of tickrate, etc)
  • leptis - Analysis of shotguns, recoil, recoil control and air drag.
  • Veritable - Scoring of BF4/BF1 firearms in terms of usability, firing and other mechanics.
  • Miffyli - Random statistical analysis of BF4 battlereports/players and kill-distances. (list is cluttered with other threads).
Sorry if your name wasn't on the list, I honestly can't recall all names : ( . Nudge me if you want to be included

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Wednesday, November 18th 2015, 4:48pm

Every true BF veteran knows that a game needs at least 7 classes, a squad size of 6 and commander mode. Anything that fails to meet these standards is casual.
[Aristocrat's Shoes]
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Teamwork is where players function by themselves, but their effectiveness is multiplied when they work together. Not a checklist of "did we bring a healer so we can start playing?"

ToTheSun!

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Wednesday, November 18th 2015, 4:52pm

Every true BF veteran knows that a game needs at least 7 classes, a squad size of 6 and commander mode. Anything that fails to meet these standards is casual.

You forgot dolphin diving and balance issues.

  • "Zormau" started this thread

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Wednesday, November 18th 2015, 4:58pm

@Rezal
"... casual and bad" - you forgot about it being bad if it's casual, because casual obviously is a bad thing.

@ToTheSun
I'll eventually play the game sure enough and I don't think that "casual" is a word that's correctly used to describe a game very often, or at least falsely interpreted very often. For once I have to agree with our dear LevelCap in his assessment that the game isn't "casual" in the sense that it reduces the importance of skill, but rather just accessible in a similar sense as Blizzard titles like Hearthstone, Heroes of the Storm, World of Warcraft and potentially Overwatch. And it's probably the only reasonable thing to go, as the license alone must have cost a fortune and the potential fanbase is huge and diverse.

I liked the beta a lot, but I feel that it's not content-rich enough to warrant the price tag, so I'll wait for a better opportunity.

Also having seen players consistently perform miles above the rest of their team (or the enemy team for that matter) makes me scratch my head about the "lol no skill gap" argument.
Zormau - Battlelog / Battlefield 4

Memorable quotes not taken yet:


Of course, this ignores the non-constant cross-sectional first moment of area across the chest as well as non-constant material properties of the boob; it would be difficult to perform a more detailed analysis (as in, I'd have to have a shape function AND I'd need to derive a function for elastic modulus as a function of lateral breast coordinate) but whatever. It's 2am and I'm lazy.


I always believed science should be very hands on experience.

You should also answer this question I had posed in that thread: Would you be willing to pay your surgeon more if he was going to use a chainsaw for the opening incision of surgery? Clearly using a chainsaw isn't truly suited for surgery but that doesn't really matter. If he's "skilled" enough to be able to use the wrong tools of the trade, he should be rewarded for that skill right?


Posts: 4,259

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: Apr 6th 2012

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Location: From the heart of Europe.

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Wednesday, November 18th 2015, 5:09pm

If you don't need at least 500 hours to not suck at a game, it is obviously casual and bad.
[Aristocrat's Shoes]
TLDR -
Teamwork is where players function by themselves, but their effectiveness is multiplied when they work together. Not a checklist of "did we bring a healer so we can start playing?"

  • "Zormau" started this thread

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Wednesday, November 18th 2015, 5:11pm

There, much better.
Zormau - Battlelog / Battlefield 4

Memorable quotes not taken yet:


Of course, this ignores the non-constant cross-sectional first moment of area across the chest as well as non-constant material properties of the boob; it would be difficult to perform a more detailed analysis (as in, I'd have to have a shape function AND I'd need to derive a function for elastic modulus as a function of lateral breast coordinate) but whatever. It's 2am and I'm lazy.


I always believed science should be very hands on experience.

You should also answer this question I had posed in that thread: Would you be willing to pay your surgeon more if he was going to use a chainsaw for the opening incision of surgery? Clearly using a chainsaw isn't truly suited for surgery but that doesn't really matter. If he's "skilled" enough to be able to use the wrong tools of the trade, he should be rewarded for that skill right?


NoctyrneSAGA

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Thursday, November 19th 2015, 12:35am

@Miffyli

Do the accuracy plots take into account HorizontalRecoilAmplitudeMax?
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With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


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Miffyli

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Thursday, November 19th 2015, 8:30am

Do the accuracy plots take into account HorizontalRecoilAmplitudeMax?

Oh wow good spot. In BF4/BFH it was always "just something big" it would never really hit but now it seems be 0.2 for most. I need to look into this next week (exam tomorrow and deadline for important school stuff today).
Links to users' thread list who have made analytical/statistical/mathematical/cool posts on Symthic:
  • 3VerstsNorth - Analysis of game mechanics in BF4 (tickrates, effects of tickrate, etc)
  • leptis - Analysis of shotguns, recoil, recoil control and air drag.
  • Veritable - Scoring of BF4/BF1 firearms in terms of usability, firing and other mechanics.
  • Miffyli - Random statistical analysis of BF4 battlereports/players and kill-distances. (list is cluttered with other threads).
Sorry if your name wasn't on the list, I honestly can't recall all names : ( . Nudge me if you want to be included