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Thursday, November 10th 2016, 12:52pm

@VincentNZ
the problem is not when you have insurance, the problem is when you don't, the american healthcare system doesn't work not because of the services offered to whom, but the fact that people who for a reason or another go from having the best to not having it at all end up being buried in bills and stuff, to the point where their life goes down the drain for something as simple as a broken hand(ok maybe the last part is an exhaggeration, but i still did see this happen way too much for americans, i barely ever heard of similar cases in italy, where the insurance doesn't pay for your glasses at all btw)
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VincentNZ

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Thursday, November 10th 2016, 1:37pm

@VincentNZ
the problem is not when you have insurance, the problem is when you don't, the american healthcare system doesn't work not because of the services offered to whom, but the fact that people who for a reason or another go from having the best to not having it at all end up being buried in bills and stuff, to the point where their life goes down the drain for something as simple as a broken hand(ok maybe the last part is an exhaggeration, but i still did see this happen way too much for americans, i barely ever heard of similar cases in italy, where the insurance doesn't pay for your glasses at all btw)


Did I come across as being suportive of the American system? Your post reads like that. :D

I am totally agreeing with your sentiments, I thought I put it in this way. Fact is, medical healthcare is expensive, and somebody has to pay for it. I know there has been a basic insurance for all Americans for ages, before Obamacare, but that is not the point. The point is that the same basis of insurance needs to be applying to everyone, regardless of having a job or not, being mexican or not etc., you get my drift. Often enough people with a decent job get better healthcare, and think they deserve this, which is fatally wrong. What if, as you say, they lose their privileges one way or another, or if an unemployed person needs treatment the basic insurance is not meant to pay for? Cancer or Diabetes for example, or a chronic ache in your back, where you need therapy and/or operations for years. You do not want to rely on privilege or your own savings to keep you healthy, right?

Here in Germany, simplified it works like this: When you have a job you and your employer pay a fee for your retirement as well as your insurance. The insurance money goes to the insurances, which are, in a way, but not really, state-run. Depending on the insurance company you choose you might get certain benefits, my one has a more emphasised focus on new or unconventional treatmens, but I could choose a more conventional insurance as well, pills and operations and such. When I get sick, the insurance pays everything from the doctor's visit to treatment and even a cleaning lady (quite awesome). Also your wife and kids are insured with you.
If you are unemployed the state pays the insurances for you, and you get the same benefits. You can still spend money on private insurances to cover costs for breast implants, very fancy teeth surgery etc..
For me this is a rather perfect system, every person does not need to fear that being healthy is a privilege or that an illness will mean personal financial ruin or will cost you your job.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "VincentNZ" (Nov 10th 2016, 1:45pm)


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Thursday, November 10th 2016, 2:18pm

Quoted

and then oh fuck what have we done :|


We have revealed the true hate in our society. That is what we have done.
-snip-
Yes indeed, there are people in both camps that are utter assholes. How surprising with over 50 million people voting for either candidate.


The more I come to terms with Trump actually becoming president, the more I want to see what happens. He can finally get legislation done again, and I doubt that it'll be as bad as "the leftist media" or even "the liberal media" made it out to be, even in their more moderate moments.

I think I also have a better understanding what mindset many Americans had that made them vote for Trump. They were willing to take the risk of a "wildcard president" whose policies promised to be radically different from what happened before rather than vote for the "controlled risk" of "same old - same old". I can respect that, but it would not have been my choice. Probably has something to do with me not having grown up in the US, but Germany, and I don't wish to imply any superiority there, just difference.
Zormau - Battlelog / Battlefield 4

Memorable quotes not taken yet:


Of course, this ignores the non-constant cross-sectional first moment of area across the chest as well as non-constant material properties of the boob; it would be difficult to perform a more detailed analysis (as in, I'd have to have a shape function AND I'd need to derive a function for elastic modulus as a function of lateral breast coordinate) but whatever. It's 2am and I'm lazy.


I always believed science should be very hands on experience.

You should also answer this question I had posed in that thread: Would you be willing to pay your surgeon more if he was going to use a chainsaw for the opening incision of surgery? Clearly using a chainsaw isn't truly suited for surgery but that doesn't really matter. If he's "skilled" enough to be able to use the wrong tools of the trade, he should be rewarded for that skill right?


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Thursday, November 10th 2016, 2:20pm

Don't misunderstand! Obama care partially in practice and theory is great! So many Americans who need health insurance now have it but it also is utter crap. To paint it as a great thing for all Americans is false. Nothing is great for everyone.



Get rid of all illegals impossible. But I would like tighter enforcement of our laws. A enforcement that would create jobs, save money, reducethe burdain on local and federal.

The only thing I fear... Is your fear tactics. I am now a Nazi supporter, so in the eyes of my ignorant fellows they are justified in assaulting me.

The only thing I'm afraid of is your "peace and tolerance" tolerating the blood from my body if I were to wear my maga hat.

Racism, oh yeah. I lived in Oklahoma, one of the few 100% red states, had my German American gf live me, her parents love me, and her actual nazi supporting Grandmother love me. Btw literally everyone mixed there from what I saw. The only people that didn't were the illegals.

All this hate and fear, turn on American tv. That isn't run by my black, white, indian, german, polish, whatever AMERICAN friends(democrat and republican) who are drinking and relaxing and fking and living life the best they can.

Turn on the tv.

It's people like you. Who tell me I'm racist. Who tell me I'm a nazi. An uncle tom. I hate women and other things. You are the same people who told me I have to support Obama cuz he is black. I have to vote democrat because I'm a minority.
Yeah we are the nazi's, might want to look up the schools here that are segregating white kids from coulored kids and putting them in "reeducation" I mean sensitivity training. Both of them. Training to coulored kids to fear white people too.

Then again, you are from Germany.

@VincentNZ
Let me see if I understand Germany's healthcare system.

I from a foreign country can illegally pop over, get healthcare treatment, and I'll be aok? No need to worrying about payment?

If so, now I understand why so many Brits were against brexit. That's free healthcare. Do you have the same for housing?

p.s. doctors can refuse to care. Ama form and tell them to go see someone else.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "MsMuchLove" (Nov 10th 2016, 2:29pm)


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Thursday, November 10th 2016, 2:34pm

@VincentNZ
yeah that iirc is less or more how it works in france too, not really sure though because when my father neededd it he came back to italy after 2 weeks, i know his work's boss was involved into it though, but in italy you don't need anything, you fall ill you get cured though there's obviously many exceptions, oculistic and dental treatment isn't comprised in the normal healthcare, though for stuff like accidents, viruses, and so on(i think even cancer and tumors though i'm not sure) you're fully covered, this though has also the double side that while the system itself is not bad, what is shitty it's the hospitals themselves, we don't have a lot of money here due to how the politicians salary is split, and for how much this extensive general healthcare costs, as such we don't have many working hospitals and it's not rare to see for example in the north hospitals that are abandoned with top-notch equipment inside, and in the south hospitals that are so full of patients that they have to stay in the middle the hallways, this also means that if you have for example what you think is signs of tumor, sure, you can check it for free(technically, but not really, if something isn't life-threateening you still have to pay for a "ticket", although not everyone has to pay for it, but it's not very high though it still is considering how little we pay on other things) but it may take up to 6 month to get it checked, you may get a rash on your arm and in the time it takes for you to actually get it checked, you already have lost that arm to some weird-ass rare illness, in fact, mmy father was quite lucky to have had hys gulle-barre syndrom in france, and even luckier to have been hospitalized somewhere where cases of it already happened, otherwise he probably would have some form of paralysis by now.

it's really a double-sided coin, but i too feel like the german/french system is the better one, it might not be flawless, but it is the most balanced of them all, and when compared to the american one... yeah there's really no game, it's better.
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bf3
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*= 6 if we not count the EOD BOT headshots

@kataklism

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Thursday, November 10th 2016, 2:39pm


It's people like you. Who tell me I'm racist. Who tell me I'm a nazi.
Then again, you are from Germany.

@VincentNZ
Let me see if I understand Germany's healthcare system.

I from a foreign country can illegally pop over, get healthcare treatment, and I'll be aok? No need to worrying about payment?

If so, now I understand why so many Brits were against brexit. That's free healthcare.
You're not necessarily a nazi. Or racist. Or hate women. You just didn't very much care what your candidate did. Just as many Germans didn't care much about the NSDAP's anti-semitic and anti-minority rhetoric and agenda in 1933, thinking that it wouldn't be so bad at all in the end. They weren't nazis. They weren't racist. They were just indifferent about a rhetoric of fear and hate, maybe even enthralled by it. Mind you the left wing has spread plenty of fear of Donald Trump, which I am just now trying to finally overcome - the only sensible thing to do.

What point are you trying to make with "Then again, you are from Germany"?

That we shouldn't be the ones calling out racism, the potential of fascism and radicalism where we see it? Because our country has a history of it? Doesn't that actually make us *more* qualified? Been there, done that, learned from it? Oh god I hope we actually did learn from it...

Healthcare:
If you pop over from another country and need immediate treatment, yes, you will receive it. An example for that would be any kind of accident. We kinda don't let people die if they're injured after a traffic accident, just as doctors in the US don't do that. If you can not pay for it and don't have insurance where you are from, yes, you will not be bankrupted by it.

I don't think you'll be able to hop over for treatment of a long-term issue and get that for free, though.
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Of course, this ignores the non-constant cross-sectional first moment of area across the chest as well as non-constant material properties of the boob; it would be difficult to perform a more detailed analysis (as in, I'd have to have a shape function AND I'd need to derive a function for elastic modulus as a function of lateral breast coordinate) but whatever. It's 2am and I'm lazy.


I always believed science should be very hands on experience.

You should also answer this question I had posed in that thread: Would you be willing to pay your surgeon more if he was going to use a chainsaw for the opening incision of surgery? Clearly using a chainsaw isn't truly suited for surgery but that doesn't really matter. If he's "skilled" enough to be able to use the wrong tools of the trade, he should be rewarded for that skill right?


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Thursday, November 10th 2016, 2:50pm

Do pray tell what he did? Not say but did because apparently Hillary's comments aren't racist.

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Thursday, November 10th 2016, 2:52pm

Do pray tell what he did?
You really like taking risks I see. You don't want to see government-level racism and fascism happening. You want to stop it before it happens. You'd be well advised not only to look at what people *do*, but also what they *say*.

Also please enlighten me about Hillary Clinton's racist quotes.
Zormau - Battlelog / Battlefield 4

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Of course, this ignores the non-constant cross-sectional first moment of area across the chest as well as non-constant material properties of the boob; it would be difficult to perform a more detailed analysis (as in, I'd have to have a shape function AND I'd need to derive a function for elastic modulus as a function of lateral breast coordinate) but whatever. It's 2am and I'm lazy.


I always believed science should be very hands on experience.

You should also answer this question I had posed in that thread: Would you be willing to pay your surgeon more if he was going to use a chainsaw for the opening incision of surgery? Clearly using a chainsaw isn't truly suited for surgery but that doesn't really matter. If he's "skilled" enough to be able to use the wrong tools of the trade, he should be rewarded for that skill right?


VincentNZ

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Thursday, November 10th 2016, 2:53pm

This was only a very broad summary and I am a bit hazy on stuff like this myself, but:

If you are not German and use medical treatment here (hospitals/doctors) your own insurance applies, naturally. So if you as an American get sick here your insurance will pay.

Illegal immigrants, or refugees get the full benefits from the german healthcare system (there are differences but generally, every refugee gets the same as I do). And naturally this is the only right option. What is the alternative? Let them die in the streets? I mean they left their country for whatever reason to look for a better place to live and raise their kids. If we treat them differently than we treat ourselves, then what have we learned in the past century?

This does not mean the system is not exploitable or that people come here for reasons that I find appropriate, but they come here and they are here so we deal with them in the only possible way.

By the way going abroad to look for a better life is just THE American thing, isn't it? I do not see how people can not acknowledge that Mexicans crossing the border, Syrians fleeing from war, or Africans travelling over the mediterranean sea to work in Spain are just the same people that got on the Mayflower 500 years ago.

Here George Orwell's Animal Farm is right: All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others.

I am not commenting on the Nazi thing. I just say that when you vote Trump you showed that negative messages got hold of you. For no reason, too.

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Thursday, November 10th 2016, 2:57pm

I don't think you'll be able to hop over for treatment of a long-term issue and get that for free, though.

my father needed that in france and we're not really sure, it might have been free, but he was in corsica, an island, and to get treatment he would have had to be taken via helicopter away from where he was and that quite surely isn't covered by the insurance, though we don't know if he would have been covered for the treatment itself... our guess is that it would have been, otherwise the medics wouldn't have said that the heli trip wasn't covered, but that the entire long-term rehab wasn't.


anyway, i just hope all of this doesn't lead italy to one of the 2 other choices we have aside from renzi as president, they're like trump's soul split in 2, the stupid part and the racist part, the racist part(salvini) obviously resonates a lot with the average italian as everyon here hates immigrants so much that... well, let's just say that i have n doubts in saying that italy is a racist and bigot country, anyway, the other one is more akin to the same people who voted trump, it's "the one who may change things, or do absolutely nothing" he even said he would go back to the lira in hopes of regaining economical sustainance for the country, but everyone knows that would change pretty much nothing... the main problem though, is that renzi isn't a bad presdent, after al the recent events, the only bad thing i can remember of his is the minister of defense(i think? i'm not really fond of italian political names to be honest) who was being... quite bad really, we were one of the countries in the worst shape for immigration, and they did nothing when the boom happened, in fact, they only made things worse, and that's when salvini got a boost. anyway, point is that aside from that, renzi did nothing bad,, in fact, he even gave people quite a lot of economical benefits, and i felt that on myself thanks to my family getting in italy only one salary, mine, which is my invalidity pension, and thanks to him we got multiple times more money than expected(though there were also very rare instances where the state asked us money rather than give it, but i don't remember the details) and worst of all: if people actually vote against renzi's ideals, nothing will change, because the next voting does one of 2 things: make less politicians be important, or change the entire italian costitution, with the second being what we really need, people think that just getting rid of some people will fix everything, but it won't, that'll be just a temorary fix.

what i'm getting at with all that is also that i believe this is what going to happen with trump, first we(you)'ll feel doomed, then somewhat glad of the choice, then you'll start to dread that choice again.
2 down, 1 more to go, let's hope not even more...
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bf4
on 13/05/2016
23rd M320FB user on pc(13/05/16)
rush mode score RANK:2794 TOP:2% OUT OF:215398
obliteration mode scoreRANK:994 TOP:1% OUT OF:159466
handgun medals RANK:2236 TOP:2% OUT OF:143874
longest headshot RANK:9512 TOP:4% OUT OF:257589
recon score RANK:10871 TOP:4% OUT OF:274899
general score per minute RANK:10016 TOP:4% OUT OF:294774

bf3
31/3/2012 4:58:

Headshot distance RANK:493* TOP:0%
Revives per assault minute RANK: 6019 TOP: 3%
Headshots / kill percentage RANK:25947 TOP:13%
MVP ribbons RANK:18824 TOP:11%

*= 6 if we not count the EOD BOT headshots

@kataklism

ARGUMENT DESTROYED 100

ENEMY KILLED [REASON] JSLICE20 100


WRITING SPREE STOPPED 500

link to full-size old avatar:
http://i.imgur.com/4X0321O.gif