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Posts: 341

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: Jun 29th 2013

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Thursday, January 15th 2015, 7:04pm

### Quoted from "iota-09"

@CobaltRose

iirc here you're the guy with the most experience in here, i need advices about a purchase
the tactical ak from G&P unfortunately must wait or i will never buy it as i have to get an AEG asap and that thing is way over my current budget.

what i need from you is to pick from one of these:

UMAREX (S&T) TAR21 AEG SPORTLINE

CAA M4S1 SPORT SERIES CARBINE (NERO)

G&G M4 RAS COMBAT MACHINE (TAN)

while considering the the G&G one is to be considered a "last hope" and that i can easily change hop up gum/system as well as spring on the tavor, but not much everything else.

I tech a ton on Tavors - I know them inside and out. I've tried everything from their very first production run on the sport/competition series, to their elite series under the S&T name, and then their whole range after Uramex took up the licensing

I assure you - There is NOTHING mechanically flawed about the design of the Tavor. I think it's layout is much easier to work on honestly, but this is from the other side as someone who's done 90% tech work on Tavor gearboxes and 10% on v2's (what you find in most M4's)

Consider the Tavor just based on the gun alone. Don't let all the kids on airsoft forums tell you Tavor's suck just because they're not an M4. Even the sportline versions are completely FINE. The sportline version has a VERY strong ABS plastic shell - yes it's ABS plastic, but it's strong enough that I would trust myself to completely fall on it and it would be completely fine. The polymer build of the higher end model is definitely worth the price jump if you can afford it, but there is nothing wrong with the ABS plastic for it's pricepoint. The internals are the SAME across both models

Just thought I'd say it - because anytime I see someone recommend against a Tavor just because it's not a standard M4 layout/build, I want to throw something. I would rather work on a Tavor gearbox than anything M4/v2. Can't say much on the other models you have on the list, but I hear Combat Machines are poor value (key word being value - yes low price, but can get much better for just a bit more money)

Pinkie

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Thursday, January 15th 2015, 8:02pm

### Quoted from "Exyia"

I tech a ton on Tavors - I know them inside and out. I've tried everything from their very first production run on the sport/competition series, to their elite series under the S&T name, and then their whole range after Uramex took up the licensing

I assure you - There is NOTHING mechanically flawed about the design of the Tavor. I think it's layout is much easier to work on honestly, but this is from the other side as someone who's done 90% tech work on Tavor gearboxes and 10% on v2's (what you find in most M4's)

Consider the Tavor just based on the gun alone. Don't let all the kids on airsoft forums tell you Tavor's suck just because they're not an M4. Even the sportline versions are completely FINE. The sportline version has a VERY strong ABS plastic shell - yes it's ABS plastic, but it's strong enough that I would trust myself to completely fall on it and it would be completely fine. The polymer build of the higher end model is definitely worth the price jump if you can afford it, but there is nothing wrong with the ABS plastic for it's pricepoint. The internals are the SAME across both models

Just thought I'd say it - because anytime I see someone recommend against a Tavor just because it's not a standard M4 layout/build, I want to throw something. I would rather work on a Tavor gearbox than anything M4/v2. Can't say much on the other models you have on the list, but I hear Combat Machines are poor value (key word being value - yes low price, but can get much better for just a bit more money)

yeah but you're talking about working on it, and except for the spring, if it has any problem at all(feeding problems, hop up, air group, etc...) i can't just say "ok let's open it and fix this" i'd have to ask a mechanic, and i know that i don't need to think about these events with a G&G.

btw, do you know if this batttery fits in both the tavor and CAA?
Etang batteria 1600 8.4 mini

edut:nvm, noticed it comes with a standard battery even though it is only 1100 mah.

edit 2: as well as a battery charger!
i'll be honest, unless there is some real problem with it i'm completely sold on it, especially if there are spare parts to change with real steel parts(like the top rail and stuff like that)

i mean, 150€ for a ready-to-go aeg that has battery and battery charger + if it OJ the spring can be easily modified/changed in a matter of seconds... really, just tell me that it isn't a JG/dboys build internally and i'll buy it as soon as i can.

oh and this is where i'll uy it from(just not on the eng version of the site, as the store is located in italy):
Umarex (s&t) TAR21 aeg sportline

do you think that in case it comes with the standard m130, cutting and molding it would be good enough to make it go in-joule or should i buy an sp90/100?
"I'm just a loot whore."

### stuff mostly unrelated to BF4 that interests nobody

bf4
on 13/05/2016
23rd M320FB user on pc(13/05/16)
rush mode score RANK:2794 TOP:2% OUT OF:215398
obliteration mode scoreRANK:994 TOP:1% OUT OF:159466
handgun medals RANK:2236 TOP:2% OUT OF:143874
longest headshot RANK:9512 TOP:4% OUT OF:257589
recon score RANK:10871 TOP:4% OUT OF:274899
general score per minute RANK:10016 TOP:4% OUT OF:294774

bf3
31/3/2012 4:58:

Revives per assault minute RANK: 6019 TOP: 3%
Headshots / kill percentage RANK:25947 TOP:13%
MVP ribbons RANK:18824 TOP:11%

*= 6 if we not count the EOD BOT headshots

### Quoted from "CobaltRose"

@kataklism

ARGUMENT DESTROYED 100

ENEMY KILLED [REASON] JSLICE20 100

WRITING SPREE STOPPED 500

http://i.imgur.com/4X0321O.gif

This post has been edited 4 times, last edit by "iota-09" (Jan 15th 2015, 9:11pm)

Posts: 341

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Thursday, January 15th 2015, 9:48pm

sorry, guess I should have elaborated

90% of an airsoft gun recommendation boils down to:

1. "How are the externals?" (and personally if they're good enough for you - some will only take full metal for instance)

2. "What design are the internals?"

3. "Is it reliable enough for out of the box use?"

Key word being enough. Remember that airsoft is a market driven by cheap Asian companies with little care to RMA and/or customer service. Most of them don't bother hiring reps that speak other languages - maybe for marketing, but hardly for service.

And combine that with how much stress an airsoft gearbox goes through - it's not a matter of if it will break, it's when. An AEG is essentially a motor driven pump, but they are run under such high tension springs, at relatively rapid cycle rates, all on polymer constructed pistons. Asian companies are so driven by competing by price, very few brands are built for quality first. So when it breaks - question 2 comes up and if there are standard and readily available parts to fix it.

---

anyway. having said that - any Tavor's internals are solid enough, and use all standard parts. For a pick-up and play weapon, they're perfectly fine - and not a complete dead weight when something breaks (the only proprietary parts aren't really things under heavy stress).

As for spring - I would never cut springs when new ones aren't that expensive.

Included battery/charger sets on starter guns are never good - but it's all up to you on how much you care. If you go on an airsoft forum, they'll shun you for running said battery instead of some hi performing LiPo battery - but I know that some people just don't care and/or don't play enough to warrant all the budget bumps (airsoft is a very easy "well just $5 more.....and then$10 more....and $15 more......" kind of hobby). I would say just get it, play some more - then decide if/what you want more. airsoft forums will just keep harassing you to spend upwards of$300 just to start playing, but that's so unnecessary for all beginners. no beginner knows what they want and what they'd be happy with when they just start in the sport/hobby

I'll be there... around every corner... in every empty room...

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Thursday, January 15th 2015, 10:07pm

@Exyia
I thought the sportline TAR got so much hate was because it had a polymer gearbox. That true?

@iota-09
First off: experience, HA. Good joke.

Second: I'm not entirely sure out of those three. The Combat Machine is a solid choice for beginners, but like you said: it'd be more of a last resort out of those three. The CAA M4: from what I've been able to dig up it's a King Arms M4 under all those CAA parts and King Arms is a good manufacturer, but I don't know what their sportline models are like on the inside. As for the sportline TAR: I'm gonna go with Exyia's judgement. I like the bullpup and ambi-friendly design, but I heard that it had a plastic gearbox shell and that's what scared me away from getting one.
Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?

### Quoted from "Spectacle"

I once tried to burn a bridge, but due to the half-assed levolution implementation it kept standing up just fine.

### Quoted from "DeathOfTheDodo"

Compared to the MTAR, the PDR has the TTK of your average pack of cigarettes.

The World Champion, on the Tactical Light:

### Quoted from "The World Champion"

"Oh don't mind me, I'm just out of ammo and I'll just POCKET SUN!!!!"

### Quoted from "Sheepnub"

What can't be changed can be banned.

### Quoted from "Gummybear"

I'm completely serious. Well, seriously insane actually

### Quoted from "xESxMaver1ck911"

If only more people left the wheel chair, adjustable hospital bed, and crutches behind and played HC. (aka Regen, Minimap, Killcam)

### Quoted from "hunturk"

Natalia Poklonskaya:
Putin the cute in prosecute since 2014.

### Quoted from "DeathOfTheDodo"

I can't look at my own avatar without having to pee. GG Me. GG.

### Quoted from "DeathOfTheDodo"

I swear to god if you reply with a picture of the AEK I'll mail you a buttplug shaped like one.

### Quoted from "Nick 30075"

The one time when "it's only three inches" is a good thing.

### Quoted from "RRR3186"

How do you guys control your FAMAS burst length since it fires its mag in just 1,5 seconds))
I consider each magazine a burst. :/

### Quoted from "ViperFTW"

This is Symthic, we don't do "feels" around here

Pinkie

Posts: 7,807

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: Feb 25th 2012

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Thursday, January 15th 2015, 10:10pm

eh, i'm not really sure about the "not if but when" part.. if you use a marui correctly(no full auto but only controlled burst fire and not often) then you get a stock gun that can resist up to 10 and more years(basically, some famas g2/sv still live since their release)

still, i guess that means that the tar is good at least as a G&G, maybe a little bit less, which means it's more than enough until i have money for another gun, i'll check the italian web part to know the little details, and then maybe tomorrow i'll buy it.

edit: oh look, 30 seconds searching and i get this:

### Quoted

Ares S&T non sono altro cheil rebrand della vecchia STAR, anche se il GB dovesse essere di policarbonato sparando a 1J e fino a 20bb/s non si rompono salvo sfighe bibliche, eventi limite ecc..

which translates to:
ares S&T are nothing but the re-brand of the old STAR, which means that even if made in not metal, shooting at 1+ joule with a 20/bbs rof, they won't break unless gigatic unlucky events or extreme use.

off to a great start.

oh well, buyed it, have read only good things about it, and safara can change it for a new if it doesn't work correctly, so i'm sold on that, hope to see it soon.
"I'm just a loot whore."

### stuff mostly unrelated to BF4 that interests nobody

bf4
on 13/05/2016
23rd M320FB user on pc(13/05/16)
rush mode score RANK:2794 TOP:2% OUT OF:215398
obliteration mode scoreRANK:994 TOP:1% OUT OF:159466
handgun medals RANK:2236 TOP:2% OUT OF:143874
longest headshot RANK:9512 TOP:4% OUT OF:257589
recon score RANK:10871 TOP:4% OUT OF:274899
general score per minute RANK:10016 TOP:4% OUT OF:294774

bf3
31/3/2012 4:58:

Revives per assault minute RANK: 6019 TOP: 3%
Headshots / kill percentage RANK:25947 TOP:13%
MVP ribbons RANK:18824 TOP:11%

*= 6 if we not count the EOD BOT headshots

### Quoted from "CobaltRose"

@kataklism

ARGUMENT DESTROYED 100

ENEMY KILLED [REASON] JSLICE20 100

WRITING SPREE STOPPED 500

http://i.imgur.com/4X0321O.gif

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "iota-09" (Jan 15th 2015, 10:37pm)

Posts: 341

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: Jun 29th 2013

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Thursday, January 15th 2015, 10:55pm

### Quoted from "CobaltRose"

@Exyia
I thought the sportline TAR got so much hate was because it had a polymer gearbox. That true?

@iota-09
First off: experience, HA. Good joke.

Second: I'm not entirely sure out of those three. The Combat Machine is a solid choice for beginners, but like you said: it'd be more of a last resort out of those three. The CAA M4: from what I've been able to dig up it's a King Arms M4 under all those CAA parts and King Arms is a good manufacturer, but I don't know what their sportline models are like on the inside. As for the sportline TAR: I'm gonna go with Exyia's judgement. I like the bullpup and ambi-friendly design, but I heard that it had a plastic gearbox shell and that's what scared me away from getting one.

If you buy new these days, all tavors have full metal gearboxes - they phased out the polymer version a while ago; even on the lower end sportline/competition/whatever you call it. I'm told by someone that it happened when Uramex started stamping them for trademarks, but I have an S&T only branded one (before the trademark companies swooped in) that came with metal - and a different color metal (mine is black, new ones today are regular silver colored), so S&T has been making updates/revisions to their gearbox over time. My first one had a terrible cylinder head seal, but the newer ones I found just as good/bad as any other stock gun

Although honestly, even the polymer shell isn't that bad. I still have mine lying around if I ever want to build it, but I have 4 other metal gearboxes in line for a tune-up first. Yes - four of them . Since I've learned them inside and out, I've been snatching them up when other people give up on them (or don't even try since it's not a v2)

anyway, a beginner would be perfectly happy with a Tavor with no worries on reliability. Most people you ask for opinions on have upgraded to higher power batteries and keep tinkering for more performance - it's easy to lose perspective. It's a great beginner package to get you going - enjoy it! Don't let others talk you into buying more and more until you actually play some more games. Some end up liking the gear aspect of airsoft, some upgrading guns, some trying/collecting different kinds of guns. Too many aspects for beginners to worry about - best thing to do is just go out and play!

Pinkie

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Thursday, January 15th 2015, 11:12pm

### Quoted from "CobaltRose"

@Exyia
I thought the sportline TAR got so much hate was because it had a polymer gearbox. That true?

@iota-09
First off: experience, HA. Good joke.

Second: I'm not entirely sure out of those three. The Combat Machine is a solid choice for beginners, but like you said: it'd be more of a last resort out of those three. The CAA M4: from what I've been able to dig up it's a King Arms M4 under all those CAA parts and King Arms is a good manufacturer, but I don't know what their sportline models are like on the inside. As for the sportline TAR: I'm gonna go with Exyia's judgement. I like the bullpup and ambi-friendly design, but I heard that it had a plastic gearbox shell and that's what scared me away from getting one.

If you buy new these days, all tavors have full metal gearboxes - they phased out the polymer version a while ago; even on the lower end sportline/competition/whatever you call it. I'm told by someone that it happened when Uramex started stamping them for trademarks, but I have an S&T only branded one (before the trademark companies swooped in) that came with metal - and a different color metal (mine is black, new ones today are regular silver colored), so S&T has been making updates/revisions to their gearbox over time. My first one had a terrible cylinder head seal, but the newer ones I found just as good/bad as any other stock gun

Although honestly, even the polymer shell isn't that bad. I still have mine lying around if I ever want to build it, but I have 4 other metal gearboxes in line for a tune-up first. Yes - four of them . Since I've learned them inside and out, I've been snatching them up when other people give up on them (or don't even try since it's not a v2)

anyway, a beginner would be perfectly happy with a Tavor with no worries on reliability. Most people you ask for opinions on have upgraded to higher power batteries and keep tinkering for more performance - it's easy to lose perspective. It's a great beginner package to get you going - enjoy it! Don't let others talk you into buying more and more until you actually play some more games. Some end up liking the gear aspect of airsoft, some upgrading guns, some trying/collecting different kinds of guns. Too many aspects for beginners to worry about - best thing to do is just go out and play!

well, mine SHOULD be branded umarex(at least according to the name of the article so i guess that's a 1+ , also yeah, many people say that unless it's an m4 or similar it is just bad... like, when i was resting during that mil-sim match, i said i wanted to buy a famas sv/g2, mainly because of historycal and look stufff, but everyone just looked at me weird saying "but hey, it is messy to reload, you shouldn't buy it!" well what the heck, even with mid caps you still get somewhat around 120 bbs per mag, you'll hardly ever get into the need of doing a tactical reload.

and also i'm not much into upgrading... more often than not unless it's gearbox stuff, you only end up making your gun worse,like putting a precision barrel: you might end up with stuck bbs, or changing the motor: it might be not compatible, or changing batteries to very hgigh grade: you might burn the cables or rip off the gears.

it's just too much of a bet to get high-grade parts, unless you want to make a custom based on chinese and similar products, imho you should always go with standard and only after a good chunk of matches(5? 10? 15?) decide if you want to upgrade it taking the risk, same goes for upgrading your vests and stuff like that, but it's not much about compatibility as the fact that you'll end up spending a lot.
"I'm just a loot whore."

### stuff mostly unrelated to BF4 that interests nobody

bf4
on 13/05/2016
23rd M320FB user on pc(13/05/16)
rush mode score RANK:2794 TOP:2% OUT OF:215398
obliteration mode scoreRANK:994 TOP:1% OUT OF:159466
handgun medals RANK:2236 TOP:2% OUT OF:143874
longest headshot RANK:9512 TOP:4% OUT OF:257589
recon score RANK:10871 TOP:4% OUT OF:274899
general score per minute RANK:10016 TOP:4% OUT OF:294774

bf3
31/3/2012 4:58:

Revives per assault minute RANK: 6019 TOP: 3%
Headshots / kill percentage RANK:25947 TOP:13%
MVP ribbons RANK:18824 TOP:11%

*= 6 if we not count the EOD BOT headshots

### Quoted from "CobaltRose"

@kataklism

ARGUMENT DESTROYED 100

ENEMY KILLED [REASON] JSLICE20 100

WRITING SPREE STOPPED 500

http://i.imgur.com/4X0321O.gif

Posts: 341

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: Jun 29th 2013

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Thursday, January 15th 2015, 11:28pm

### Quoted from "iota-09"

well, mine SHOULD be branded umarex(at least according to the name of the article so i guess that's a 1+ , also yeah, many people say that unless it's an m4 or similar it is just bad... like, when i was resting during that mil-sim match, i said i wanted to buy a famas sv/g2, mainly because of historycal and look stufff, but everyone just looked at me weird saying "but hey, it is messy to reload, you shouldn't buy it!" well what the heck, even with mid caps you still get somewhat around 120 bbs per mag, you'll hardly ever get into the need of doing a tactical reload.

and also i'm not much into upgrading... more often than not unless it's gearbox stuff, you only end up making your gun worse,like putting a precision barrel: you might end up with stuck bbs, or changing the motor: it might be not compatible, or changing batteries to very hgigh grade: you might burn the cables or rip off the gears.

it's just too much of a bet to get high-grade parts, unless you want to make a custom based on chinese and similar products, imho you should always go with standard and only after a good chunk of matches(5? 10? 15?) decide if you want to upgrade it taking the risk, same goes for upgrading your vests and stuff like that, but it's not much about compatibility as the fact that you'll end up spending a lot.
Have you gotten a chance to hold a FAMAS?

I'm a huge bullpup fan, so naturally the classic (yet still somewhat futuristic looking) FAMAS has always appealed to me. Before I actually played airsoft, I bought a cheap springer FAMAS with intent to just hang on my wall and look at.

That was the best \$35 I ever spent. The FAMAS is SOOOOOOOOOOO clunky and awkward. It doesn't "feel" like a bullpup - as in, it didn't feel compact and tight to the body like the whole concept of a bullpup claims to be. I was hugely disappointed that my dream rifle was so awkard in person - but thankfully I only bought a springer and didn't waste too much money (and still have it as a display piece at home)

again - this is coming from a huge bullpup fan that is bored to death of anything AR-15/M4 styled. Even I was pretty "blegh" about the FAMAS

Pinkie

Posts: 7,807

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: Feb 25th 2012

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Thursday, January 15th 2015, 11:39pm

huh... i don't know.. i'm a pretty insistive person though when it comes to this stuff, i might even buy a marui one just for collectionism(though that means i'd buy it much later on than expected)
maybe it's just because mgs1 was the first game i ever played with someone else, or maybe it's just because i'm a collectionist, but i really can't see how it can be so clunky that you'd prefer never using it even when being a bullpup-hardcore fan.
but oh well, that's something i'll see later on, when i have around 2-300 euro to spend on something that will most likely be useless.
"I'm just a loot whore."

### stuff mostly unrelated to BF4 that interests nobody

bf4
on 13/05/2016
23rd M320FB user on pc(13/05/16)
rush mode score RANK:2794 TOP:2% OUT OF:215398
obliteration mode scoreRANK:994 TOP:1% OUT OF:159466
handgun medals RANK:2236 TOP:2% OUT OF:143874
longest headshot RANK:9512 TOP:4% OUT OF:257589
recon score RANK:10871 TOP:4% OUT OF:274899
general score per minute RANK:10016 TOP:4% OUT OF:294774

bf3
31/3/2012 4:58:

Revives per assault minute RANK: 6019 TOP: 3%
Headshots / kill percentage RANK:25947 TOP:13%
MVP ribbons RANK:18824 TOP:11%

*= 6 if we not count the EOD BOT headshots

### Quoted from "CobaltRose"

@kataklism

ARGUMENT DESTROYED 100

ENEMY KILLED [REASON] JSLICE20 100

WRITING SPREE STOPPED 500

http://i.imgur.com/4X0321O.gif

I'll be there... around every corner... in every empty room...

Posts: 3,446

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: Nov 8th 2013

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Friday, January 16th 2015, 1:55am

### Quoted from "Exyia"

but I have 4 other metal gearboxes in line for a tune-up first. Yes - four of them . Since I've learned them inside and out, I've been snatching them up when other people give up on them (or don't even try since it's not a v2)
four WIP gearboxes? Damn, son!

I'm pretty much at a stage where I couldn't play right now. I plan on selling two of my sidearms (the KWC 1911 because I want to get something that actually has spare parts available, the WE M&P9 because I'd rather not deal with green gas/propane and its trigger pull -- while somewhat light -- is longer than I'd like), and my shotgun + other sidearm -- just a Umarex USP NBB that's in a carbine kit -- are relegated to loaner duty. Both of my AEG's are WIP right now: waiting on cash to get parts for my Masada, and I want to convert my PDW to use a long-shaft motor and (possibly after I get my tax refund this year) use the medium motor for a Cybergun SIG556 DMR build. This means I'd need a regular M4 grip (since it is AR15-pattern) and I already have the grip, but I've run into a problem: I went with a CAA grip because I wanted something other than your standard a1/a2 grip style, but the JG motor base plate I got with it doesn't fit because it's too short to hit both screw holes. I could have my dad (who is a machinist) tap and countersink the front hole to fit, but there isn't enough metal in front of the hole for it to have any integrity. -sigh- tempted to just send it back and get a grip that actually comes with a base plate
Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?

### Quoted from "Spectacle"

I once tried to burn a bridge, but due to the half-assed levolution implementation it kept standing up just fine.

### Quoted from "DeathOfTheDodo"

Compared to the MTAR, the PDR has the TTK of your average pack of cigarettes.

The World Champion, on the Tactical Light:

### Quoted from "The World Champion"

"Oh don't mind me, I'm just out of ammo and I'll just POCKET SUN!!!!"

### Quoted from "Sheepnub"

What can't be changed can be banned.

### Quoted from "Gummybear"

I'm completely serious. Well, seriously insane actually

### Quoted from "xESxMaver1ck911"

If only more people left the wheel chair, adjustable hospital bed, and crutches behind and played HC. (aka Regen, Minimap, Killcam)

### Quoted from "hunturk"

Natalia Poklonskaya:
Putin the cute in prosecute since 2014.

### Quoted from "DeathOfTheDodo"

I can't look at my own avatar without having to pee. GG Me. GG.

### Quoted from "DeathOfTheDodo"

I swear to god if you reply with a picture of the AEK I'll mail you a buttplug shaped like one.

### Quoted from "Nick 30075"

The one time when "it's only three inches" is a good thing.

### Quoted from "RRR3186"

How do you guys control your FAMAS burst length since it fires its mag in just 1,5 seconds))
I consider each magazine a burst. :/

### Quoted from "ViperFTW"

This is Symthic, we don't do "feels" around here

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "CobaltRose" (Jan 16th 2015, 2:08am)

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