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Aenonar

Data Analyzer

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: Dec 16th 2011

Platform: PC

Location: Sweden

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31

Friday, May 3rd 2013, 6:57pm

I found this gun...it's within my price range, and seems like it would be compact enough to carry concealed. It's a 22 LR with a barrel length of 3.5" and an overall length of 6.4". Also, I heard it's rent-able at my local shooting range, which I intend to try out very soon.


Thoughts?


For self defense.... Uh... No I would never get a 22cal for that... Might trick some people since it looks like a normal tactical gun plus makes a bang. But once you shoot it against someone with some experience, it's pretty easy to tell the difference in bang, and the 22cal wouldn't really do much against an attacker...

For practice / fun, sure.. But for practice I'd rather take a conversion kit so you can practice with the same overall gun/trigger (I've got that for my glock)

Quoted

(14:06:57) Riesig: I should stop now. People might get sig material again

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: Sep 19th 2012

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32

Friday, May 3rd 2013, 7:06pm

@MoonKnight
That right there is a money saver. Allows you to take it out to shoot without wasting an expensive round so therefore you can fire it more often.
Self defense and an EDC I'd at least kick up to a 9MM. I'm not sure what your price range is or what you were looking at but the SR is in multiple calibres. So if that's what you're interested in you can get something viable for 'personal defense'. Which seems to be your targeted audience in terms of looking.

Pretty much what Aen said though. The 22 is definitely a 'practice' firearm.

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: Jan 18th 2012

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33

Friday, May 3rd 2013, 7:30pm

A .22lr beats no gun at all. It may not be ideal but I think it is still a viable option. A lot of people have carried .22s and have successfully used them for self-defense. If you are only going to have one gun or this is going to be your first gun, I think you could do a lot worse. As a first gun you will need to get a lot of practice!

The great thing about the .22lr is that you can fire it five times as much as a 9mm for the same price of ammunition and really get skilled with it if you don't have enough money to shoot a bigger caliber.

Or at least you could before all the panic buying that started this December and continues to this day making it so that you cannot find any ammo at normal prices in stock on shelves. Ironically, about the only handgun ammunition I've seen on shelves locally is .40 S&W and .45 colt and everything else has been mainly only obtainable by purchasing second hand at a vastly inflated price or by waking up super early to stand in long lines where only the first few people in line get anything. But I predict in a few more months things may return to normal where .22lr will again be dramatically cheaper than the oher calibers.

I'd fear a skilled pistol shooter armed with a .22lr pistol a lot more than someone who had a 9mm but no ability to shoot it. The Israeli Mossad has used .22lr handguns to pretty good effect, both in assassinations and defensively. But the Mossad is highly trained and they go for CNS hits.

Even if a bad guy knows it is a .22, a bad guy isn't going to sit around and shrug it off. It is still a lethal threat. People die all the time due to the .22lr and with a central nervous system hit they could still drop instantly. In fact, in times past it as common for people to use a .22 short to the skull of a cow to kill it. That said, hits outside of the Central Nervous System are less damaging and result in less blood loss than a bigger caliber and the .22lr can easily be stopped by the some of the lowest grades of body armor. So in that respect it is not so optimal, because the CNS is a hard target to hit and training typically involves aiming for center of exposed mass. Lower powered cartridges are also more likely to be deflected by the skull. Generally speaking, it is hard enough to hit a moving target shooting back at you at all, and hitting a specific area on the attacker is something that even many professionals do not often train to do because it is difficult to do and getting any hit is a good thing. And for a fully exposed person, there are a lot of vital organs in the center of mass.

The .22lr does offer very low recoil and fast follow up shots, however. Even if none of your shots hit the CNS, and none of them disabled a major organ, imagine stabbing the attacker 10 times 8 inches deep with an ice pick. If you could do that, I'd say it would put the odds decidedly in your favor. Shooting a guy with 10 .45's will cause a lot more tissue damage, but even then there are documented cases where people have been hit multiple times by higher caliber firearms and continued to fight or run away. Even after multiple hits, people have survived after surgery, and even with fatal blows many men have continued to live long enough to take others with them. With adrenaline flowing, it is possible that a person might not immediately notice being hit even by a larger caliber. Where the shot hits is often more important than what the bullet was. A .22lr to the eye socket will be a better fight stopper than a .50 BMG to the pinky finger.

Here is an interesting link to a video where a doctor describes gun shot wounds: Dr Andreas Grabinsky on Gunshot Wounds - YouTube

The biggest problem with the .22lr in terminal ballistics is that it has very low penetration. The FBI recommends at least 12-18 inches in gel but you can't really rely on even 12 inches of gel from a .22lr. These seemingly arbitrary penetration depths I believe were decided upon based on a police shooting where bullets passed through the arm of a suspect and then came to rest just before the heart, resulting in a situation where the suspect continued a running gun battle with police for quite some time, whereas if it had struck the heart would have stopped the fight within a minute.

Another major problem with .22lr is that the mass produced rimfire cartridges are often inconsistent. Almost every box of 525 I buy has a few duds in it. However, if you purchase higher end ammunition rather than the bulk stuff, you can probably get pretty good reliability.

Due to the rim of the .22lr, ironically, you can usually fit more rounds of 9mm in a grip of the same height. I think a 9mm is generally a better self-defense choice as you will be able to have a higher capacity and each round will be more potent. But even if you carry a 9mm, you will probably want a .22lr to practice with. If you get the .22 first you can always get a 9mm later after you get a lot of practice with the fundamentals of pistol shooting with the .22lr.
#1 With the .44 Scoped on PC. (July 2013)

This post has been edited 9 times, last edit by "Splat-O-Flat" (May 3rd 2013, 7:57pm)


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: Jun 12th 2012

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34

Friday, May 3rd 2013, 8:25pm

@BieberFever So what would your recommended overall length be? I'm 5'10 with a somewhat slender build, but not quite a rail either. I also refuse to dress as such:


I dress more like this (the guy in the grey tshirt) :


In fact, my build looks a lot like his, but taller.

Sorry if this seems to specific, I just hate being making mistakes...especially expensive ones. :rolleyes:


@BieberFever So what would your recommended overall length be? I'm 5'10 with a somewhat slender build, but not quite a rail either. I also refuse to dress as such:


I dress more like this (the guy in the grey tshirt) :


In fact, my build looks a lot like his, but taller.

Sorry if this seems to specific, I just hate being making mistakes...especially expensive ones.




I'd probably wear a T shirt with a longer uh...length, Tail? A T shirt that hung lower, not like thug life in the red hat, but low enough to cover the front pockets. This is because the extra fabric will still cover the gun when you bend over, crouch, etc etc. also make sure it's loose fitting enough to avoid 'printing' which is where the outline of your gun can be seen through the fabric of your shirt.
"Blood is the price of victory"
- Karl von Clausewitz

"Don't fight a battle if you don't gain anything by winning."
- Erwin Rommel

PSN: Suodeth_

Posts: 80

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: Oct 12th 2012

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35

Friday, May 3rd 2013, 9:29pm

The Taurus .22 will be cheap to feed, fun to use, provide ample practice for a "real" gun.

If life went sour, it'd certainly be better than throwing rocks.

It is, however, not really even remotely "adequete" in the self defense department, other than the simple fact of bringing knives to gunfights.

None the less, I heartilly suggest you pursue that option. A .22 is the perfect first gun for everyone, bar none.

FWIW, a very good friend of mine owns two handguns, a .22 automatic and a Taurus 850, their version of the hammerless J frame. He hasn't seen a need for a bigger bottom feeder.

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