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## Idea/theory to re-balance the recon class. Also first post paragraph . . . somewhere in the wall of text.

Posts: 973

Date of registration
: Nov 15th 2012

Platform: PC

Location: Chile

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 5

Wednesday, March 13th 2013, 10:41am

### Quoted from "Rizn-Nuke"

I think the best class system would lie somewhere between BF2 and BF3 (sry never palyed BC1 or BC2 but I don't like the Idea of Medic having LMGs)

-Assault: AR - M320/M26 - ???
-Engineer: Carb - SMAW/STINGER - REP/MINE
-Medic: Carb - Medkit - Defib
-Support: LMG - AMMO - Mortar
-Scout: PDW/Shotgun - Motionballs/TUGS/MAV - Spawn
-Sniper: SR - Claymore - SOFLAM/Binocs

Who do you think should get C4 in this setup? What should the assault get to complete his set? What equipmnet should be added?
Scouts. I think Medics should get LMGs, BF2 style? Scouts should probably get carbines.
Avatar is from here!

### Quoted from "Riesig"

Finesse

You do not have it.

### Sleeper case...

[email protected]
Noctua NH-U14s

Asus Z97-I plus
2x8GB DDR3-1866

eVGA GTX 670 blower, can't remember what edition
Assortment of HDDs and SSDs
Silverstone SFX 600w

first!!! denied...

Posts: 603

Date of registration
: Dec 8th 2011

Platform: PC

Location: Undisclosed but alive

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 7

Wednesday, March 13th 2013, 10:46am

### Quoted from "Rizn-Nuke"

I think the best class system would lie somewhere between BF2 and BF3 (sry never palyed BC1 or BC2 but I don't like the Idea of Medic having LMGs)

-Assault: AR - M320/M26 - ???
-Engineer: Carb - SMAW/STINGER - REP/MINE
-Medic: Carb - Medkit - Defib
-Support: LMG - AMMO - Mortar
-Scout: PDW/Shotgun - Motionballs/TUGS/MAV - Spawn
-Sniper: SR - Claymore - SOFLAM/Binocs

Who do you think should get C4 in this setup? What should the assault get to complete his set? What equipmnet should be added?
Scouts. I think Medics should get LMGs, BF2 style? Scouts should probably get carbines.
In BF2 Style, the medic was just like now... with the best AR in the game (G36E) ... everyone played medic back then

Bullets may have your name on them, but shrapnel is addressed "to whom it may concern"

### Quoted from "ViperFTW"

"Pff, c'mon. You know I'm like the crazy homeless man who lives in the postbox, everyone ignores me but I'M GONNA KEEP TALKING ABOUT SHIT ANYWAYS DD"

### Spoiler

"I don't think I've ever moved THAT fast xD. Next time a bear's chasing me say he'll hack my acount if he catches me xDD" -Vip3rFTW

### Quoted from "ViperFTW"

I've sat and came up with 3 theories about your PC, Rizn.
1) Its constructed by Satan and every so often it'll crash to a Red Screen that just says "Another must fall", which is your queue to go out, find a virgin, kill her and pour the blood over the beating-heart-like processor within
3) (My sister's idea) Its powered by the core of the Earth and is, as a direct result, responsible for climate change. Your PC being able to run the BF4 beta without crashing/lagging will destroy humanity

Posts: 973

Date of registration
: Nov 15th 2012

Platform: PC

Location: Chile

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 5

Wednesday, March 13th 2013, 10:47am

### Quoted from "Rizn-Nuke"

I think the best class system would lie somewhere between BF2 and BF3 (sry never palyed BC1 or BC2 but I don't like the Idea of Medic having LMGs)

-Assault: AR - M320/M26 - ???
-Engineer: Carb - SMAW/STINGER - REP/MINE
-Medic: Carb - Medkit - Defib
-Support: LMG - AMMO - Mortar
-Scout: PDW/Shotgun - Motionballs/TUGS/MAV - Spawn
-Sniper: SR - Claymore - SOFLAM/Binocs

Who do you think should get C4 in this setup? What should the assault get to complete his set? What equipmnet should be added?
Scouts. I think Medics should get LMGs, BF2 style? Scouts should probably get carbines.
In BF2 Style, the medic was just like now... with the best AR in the game (G36E) ... everyone played medic back then
I liked medic MGs, I think that would work nice.

My main problem with the assault being separate from the medic is that it encourages the use of the 320. At least in BF3 you have to give up your medkits for it, but if you just give them out for free (with the amount of kids playing the game) every smallish map will end up a 320 spam fest.
Avatar is from here!

### Quoted from "Riesig"

Finesse

You do not have it.

### Sleeper case...

[email protected]
Noctua NH-U14s

Asus Z97-I plus
2x8GB DDR3-1866

eVGA GTX 670 blower, can't remember what edition
Assortment of HDDs and SSDs
Silverstone SFX 600w

first!!! denied...

Posts: 603

Date of registration
: Dec 8th 2011

Platform: PC

Location: Undisclosed but alive

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 7

Wednesday, March 13th 2013, 10:55am

### Quoted from "Gorbaz The Dragon"

My main problem with the assault being separate from the medic is that it encourages the use of the 320. At least in BF3 you have to give up your medkits for it, but if you just give them out for free (with the amount of kids playing the game) every smallish map will end up a 320 spam fest.
You have a point there. However when I played BF2 (back in the days ) This didn't seem like much of a problem. But if you take away the AR from medics you might be right about that...

Bullets may have your name on them, but shrapnel is addressed "to whom it may concern"

### Quoted from "ViperFTW"

"Pff, c'mon. You know I'm like the crazy homeless man who lives in the postbox, everyone ignores me but I'M GONNA KEEP TALKING ABOUT SHIT ANYWAYS DD"

### Spoiler

"I don't think I've ever moved THAT fast xD. Next time a bear's chasing me say he'll hack my acount if he catches me xDD" -Vip3rFTW

### Quoted from "ViperFTW"

I've sat and came up with 3 theories about your PC, Rizn.
1) Its constructed by Satan and every so often it'll crash to a Red Screen that just says "Another must fall", which is your queue to go out, find a virgin, kill her and pour the blood over the beating-heart-like processor within
3) (My sister's idea) Its powered by the core of the Earth and is, as a direct result, responsible for climate change. Your PC being able to run the BF4 beta without crashing/lagging will destroy humanity

Posts: 7

Date of registration
: Mar 12th 2013

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 4

Thursday, March 14th 2013, 12:40am

Hey I just wanted to add my 2 cents as a heavy recon class user (currently 10SS and over 7k kills with sniper rifles) and BF2 veteran.
Imho, class balance was way better back then. Yes, the medic was still generally the most powerful, but not as broken as it is in BF3
• First of all, I can understand why many people are afraid of the the recon class being buffed because of the camper issues.
But why are there these many hill/crane campers on BF3? The reason is 3D-spotting. People will camp as long as they have targets to shoot at. If you dont have any targets, it will become utterly boring (you may argue it is anyway, but some people find high reward in hitting long range targets, I recommend you to check out this channel:
The way they solved this issue in BF2 was to add a little fog effect which didn't allow you to see enemies past 300-400m or so. Nowadays, you have red triangles to shoot at all over the place!
So my suggestion is to range-limit the spotting effect (Possibly making it variable, maybe assault 100-200m and recon up to 400m). This would prevent long range camping and also give the recon an additional edge.
• The weapon balance of sniper rifles
In BF3 the sniper rifles are a little UP compared to the rest. The bolt-actions suffer a great time from the suppression mechanic - even the slightest bit of suppression may cause you to miss the headshot which these weapon depend on.
As far as for the SEMI-AUTOS: the SKS is good, the rest is IMHO utterly useless! A headshot wont kill the target and the spread increase for these rifles is just too damn high! For what do I need an M39 with 300 RPM when due to the huge spread increase basically makes your follow up shots all miss? (This is also the main reason I believe why many beginners can't hit a stone with these. You have to restrict your fire to around 150 RPM to use them effectively...)
• The recon class and its roles compared to the other classes. There are mainly 2 roles for the recon:
1st: CQC with TUGS/MAV and PDWs
Now as already pointed out the assault completly outclasses the recon in CQC - while the TUGS is fine and good, healing and reviving are just wayyyyyy better.
Though you can still use the recon as a sort of stealth/spec ops class using suppressed PDWs. The problem is though, that the tugs and spawn beacon need time to deploy and also alert enemies with their constant beeping.
I really wished dice would have made them noiseless and I would also like to see a revival of the motion sensor ball from BC or BFP4F which would help the class a lot!

2nd: longer range combat with SOLFAM/MAV and sniper-rifles
Like I said before the suppression mechanic and high accuracy assault rifles really hurt the sniper a lot. I would really like to see DICE removing the spread increase from suppression, but keeping the blur effects...
As far as for the SOLFAM: its a dumb gadget which requires no skill. And as already said smoke recharges way too fast to make it acutally useful. I think here you could bring in a neat idea from BFP4F: the tracer dart. Once shot at a vehicle it would make RPGs lock on to it. They could implement this by making the recon able to load the tracer darts into the sniper rifle. Than he would have to shoot and hit the vehicle (skill based) and remain there until removed by an explosion or being manually removed by the enemy.
• Removing bolt-action from the game entirely
NO WAY !!!

Posts: 7

Date of registration
: Mar 11th 2013

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 4

Thursday, March 14th 2013, 7:36am

### Quoted from "Rizn-Nuke"

I think the best class system would lie somewhere between BF2 and BF3 (sry never palyed BC1 or BC2 but I don't like the Idea of Medic having LMGs)

-Assault: AR - M320/M26 - ???
-Engineer: Carb - SMAW/STINGER - REP/MINE
-Medic: Carb - Medkit - Defib
-Support: LMG - AMMO - Mortar
-Scout: PDW/Shotgun - Motionballs/TUGS/MAV - Spawn
-Sniper: SR - Claymore - SOFLAM/Binocs

Who do you think should get C4 in this setup? What should the assault get to complete his set? What equipmnet should be added?
Scouts. I think Medics should get LMGs, BF2 style? Scouts should probably get carbines.
In BF2 Style, the medic was just like now... with the best AR in the game (G36E) ... everyone played medic back then
I liked medic MGs, I think that would work nice.

My main problem with the assault being separate from the medic is that it encourages the use of the 320. At least in BF3 you have to give up your medkits for it, but if you just give them out for free (with the amount of kids playing the game) every smallish map will end up a 320 spam fest.
Aren't the smallish maps the maps we want out of battlefield? I have some modifications to consider.

-Assault: AR *AND BATTLE RIFLES/FULL BATTLE CARTRIDGE/7.62 WEAPONS* - M320/M26 - maybe an immediate area intelligence device such as nighvision/IR vision while other classes are stuck with flashligh/IR scope (total shot in the dark) , OR MAYBE . . . SUNGLASSES

-Engineer: Carb and *PDW/Shotguns* - SMAW/STINGER - REP/MINE (IMO if you want to OPERATE/NOT IN PASSENGER SEAT of a tank/LAV/Jet/heli you should have to give up everything but, a PDW and maybe I would allow shotguns. The reason behind this is you should give up something to use a powerful vehicle and to rationalize it you are cramped in all this vehicles and would have a difficult time bring in a full sized weapon into a vehicle. BUT, this discussion is for another thread.)

-Medic: Carb - Medkit - Defib

-Support: LMG/AR - AMMO - Mortar/C4 - *ONLY PICK ONE: AR OR C4*

-Scout: Carb/AR - Motionballs - Claymore/c4 - *ONLY PICK ONE: AR OR C4*

-Sniper: SR In addition to the anti material ammo - SOFLAM/Binocs - TUGS

I want to give another class access to the ARs as long as the Assault class has exclusive access over the battle rifles (hopefully they will be more than just one of them and they will actually be more relevant.) I do not want the Medics or Engineers to have them since I am confident that they will not be under powered but, I am not sure if the scout or the support class should have access to them. I am leaning more towards the support class as they do not have C4 so they have no way of combating vehicles right now but, I could easily be convinced to go another way.

P.S. In my natural way I figured as I was typing this that the best way to sort this would be to give access to the ARs if you give up the C4 for each class. but, what I said above is still relevant as this is extremely theoretical in nature. Also, if you are wondering where the MAV went . . . FUCK THE FLYING BARBECUE!

Posts: 973

Date of registration
: Nov 15th 2012

Platform: PC

Location: Chile

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 5

Thursday, March 14th 2013, 11:52am

I think keeping the ARs to the assault class is very important for keeping balance, the difference between ARs and BRs is that battle rifles sacrifice ease of use and controllability for damage and accuracy, if they were 'better' than ARs we would end up with pretty bad balance.
Avatar is from here!

### Quoted from "Riesig"

Finesse

You do not have it.

### Sleeper case...

[email protected]
Noctua NH-U14s

Asus Z97-I plus
2x8GB DDR3-1866

eVGA GTX 670 blower, can't remember what edition
Assortment of HDDs and SSDs
Silverstone SFX 600w

Posts: 7

Date of registration
: Mar 12th 2013

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 4

Thursday, March 14th 2013, 2:20pm

Hey I just wanted to add my 2 cents as a heavy recon class user (currently 10SS and over 7k kills with sniper rifles) and BF2 veteran.
Imho, class balance was way better back then. Yes, the medic was still generally the most powerful, but not as broken as it is in BF3

=> First of all, I can understand why many people are afraid of the the recon class being buffed because of the camper issues.

But why are there these many hill/crane campers on BF3? The reason is 3D-spotting. People will camp as long as they have targets to shoot at. If you dont have any targets, it will become utterly boring (you may argue it is anyway, but some people find high reward in hitting long range targets, I recommend you to check out this channel: RYANDPAHL PRODUCTIONS - YouTube
The way they solved this issue in BF2 was to add a little fog effect which didn't allow you to see enemies past 300-400m or so. Nowadays, you have red triangles to shoot at all over the place!
So my suggestion is to range-limit the spotting effect (Possibly making it variable, maybe assault 100-200m and recon up to 400m). This would prevent long range camping and also give the recon an additional edge.

=> The weapon balance of sniper rifles

In BF3 the sniper rifles are a little UP compared to the rest. The bolt-actions suffer a great time from the suppression mechanic - even the slightest bit of suppression may cause you to miss the headshot which these weapon depend on.
As far as for the SEMI-AUTOS: the SKS is good, the rest is IMHO utterly useless! A headshot wont kill the target and the spread increase for these rifles is just too damn high! For what do I need an M39 with 300 RPM when due to the huge spread increase basically makes your follow up shots all miss? (This is also the main reason I believe why many beginners can't hit a stone with these. You have to restrict your fire to around 150 RPM to use them effectively...)

=> The recon class and its roles compared to the other classes. There are mainly 2 roles for the recon:

1st: CQC with TUGS/MAV and PDWs
Now as already pointed out the assault completly outclasses the recon in CQC - while the TUGS is fine and good, healing and reviving are just wayyyyyy better.
Though you can still use the recon as a sort of stealth/spec ops class using suppressed PDWs. The problem is though, that the tugs and spawn beacon need time to deploy and also alert enemies with their constant beeping.
I really wished dice would have made them noiseless and I would also like to see a revival of the motion sensor ball from BC or BFP4F which would help the class a lot!

2nd: longer range combat with SOLFAM/MAV and sniper-rifles
Like I said before the suppression mechanic and high accuracy assault rifles really hurt the sniper a lot. I would really like to see DICE removing the spread increase from suppression, but keeping the blur effects...
As far as for the SOLFAM: its a dumb gadget which requires no skill. And as already said smoke recharges way too fast to make it acutally useful. I think here you could bring in a neat idea from BFP4F: the tracer dart. Once shot at a vehicle it would make RPGs lock on to it. They could implement this by making the recon able to load the tracer darts into the sniper rifle. Than he would have to shoot and hit the vehicle (skill based) and remain there until removed by an explosion or being manually removed by the enemy.

=> Removing bolt-action from the game entirely

NO WAY !!!

Posts: 7

Date of registration
: Mar 11th 2013

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 4

Thursday, March 14th 2013, 8:13pm

### Quoted from "Gorbaz The Dragon"

I think keeping the ARs to the assault class is very important for keeping balance, the difference between ARs and BRs is that battle rifles sacrifice ease of use and controllability for damage and accuracy, if they were 'better' than ARs we would end up with pretty bad balance.
I would agree with that entirely if the BR's stay as they are right now. Hopefully, we will see the BR's fill a role that extends the engagement potential of the assault class beyond what I feel the true effective engagement distance of the G3A3 is now (about <100m) IMO the BR's should be weapon of the Assault class that allows them to reach out and touch the semi-auto snipers but, I digress if the BR's stay the same I completely agree with the model that gives exclusivity of AR's to the Assault class.

-Assault: AR - M320/M26/*Another rail attachment - IR/nightvison/sunglasses
-Engineer: Carb - SMAW/STINGER - REP/MINE
-Medic: Carb - Medkit - Defib
-Support: LMG - AMMO - Mortar/**Spawn
-Scout: Carb - Motionballs - Claymore/C4
-Sniper: SR - Anti Material ammo/TUGS - SOFLAM/Binocs
***- Vehicle Operator: PDW/Shotgun - whatever their class offers - whatever their class offers

*I am terrified that the M320 will dominant the M26 if they stay balanced as they are right now so, I figure that they should try to add more rail accessories into the game (MAGPUL angled foregrip, Grippod, ect.) So maybe it is an easy way to over complicate a system that works but, I don't think that having a flashlight and laser sight on a gun is game breaking. Remember I am talking exclusively about the attachments that go on the rails or in other words having both a heavy barrel and a flash supp. on a gun would be game breaking.

**Totally forgot Spawn beacon from last model. IMO the support shouldn't be too far from the front lines as they will provide ammo to everyone. The support class can also provide suppression to get newly spawned players back to the front lines.

*** simplification of:

### Quoted from "slidingbandit"

(IMO if you want to OPERATE/NOT IN PASSENGER SEAT of a tank/LAV/Jet/heli you should have to give up everything but, a PDW and maybe I would allow shotguns. The reason behind this is you should give up something to use a powerful vehicle and to rationalize it you are cramped in all this vehicles and would have a difficult time bring in a full sized weapon into a vehicle. BUT, this discussion is for another thread.)