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3,741

Wednesday, January 25th 2017, 1:54am

sure, but how exactly are the two things related? it's headshot/kill ratio, not headshot/hit, there's also a fuckton of variables amidst all that like sights, mouse accuracy, aging(yeah, you might get worse at videogames by getting older, funny huh?) and so on.... the accuracy stat(hit-miss ratio) has nothing related to the H/K ratio, so where is he pulling his assumptions from?
"I'm just a loot whore."


stuff mostly unrelated to BF4 that interests nobody



bf4
on 13/05/2016
23rd M320FB user on pc(13/05/16)
rush mode score RANK:2794 TOP:2% OUT OF:215398
obliteration mode scoreRANK:994 TOP:1% OUT OF:159466
handgun medals RANK:2236 TOP:2% OUT OF:143874
longest headshot RANK:9512 TOP:4% OUT OF:257589
recon score RANK:10871 TOP:4% OUT OF:274899
general score per minute RANK:10016 TOP:4% OUT OF:294774

bf3
31/3/2012 4:58:

Headshot distance RANK:493* TOP:0%
Revives per assault minute RANK: 6019 TOP: 3%
Headshots / kill percentage RANK:25947 TOP:13%
MVP ribbons RANK:18824 TOP:11%

*= 6 if we not count the EOD BOT headshots

@kataklism

ARGUMENT DESTROYED 100

ENEMY KILLED [REASON] JSLICE20 100


WRITING SPREE STOPPED 500

link to full-size old avatar:
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Zer0Cod3x

Can't get a title

(1,327)

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: Dec 23rd 2013

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3,742

Wednesday, January 25th 2017, 4:17am

He's suggesting that he aims for the head but the bullets are less likely to hit where you aim because spread.
Not advocating his position just explaining.

In the diagram he posted on screen, he defined "precision" as how tightly grouped the bullets are (as opposed to "accurate", how close to the point of aim the bullets land).

Since shots are distributed evenly across the area of the spread circle, perhaps you could say that the "precision" for automatic weapons is low (but I very much doubt that he knows this). However, this doesn't prove anything about his point.


Spread works the exact same way in BF1 as it did in BF3 and BF4, yet for some reason, according to him, BF1 has "lower precision" than in BF3 and BF4.

I can think of a number of reasons why the H/K ratio is lower. The head hitbox, for one, is smaller than in previous titles, making it harder to hit. The headshot multiplier is also lower than in previous titles. None of these reasons involve some arbitrary term called "precision."


In other words, XFactor has no idea what he's talking about. As per usual.
something something Model 8 bestgun


How to ice an A-91

Next, wanna try adding a guy that you KNOW is bad, and just testing to see that? Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

PP-2000 added. Y'know, it's not that bad....

Yes, it comes in last so far, but that is mostly because I'm making it shoot at 100m ADS - Not Moving as one of the criteria. Even then, between 50-100m Not Moving, when you include Useability, it is only 1.37% worse than the MTAR-21. Within 50m then it even beats the A-91.

Have a look, vs. the A-91 Carbine:




Using it with Muzzle Brake and Compensator is a wash in terms of overall performance. Comp is SLIGHTLY more accurate, while MB is SLIGHTLY more easy to use. Their overall scores are basically tied, with MB just ahead. I guess either can be recommended.

But... You can't be counting for the fact that it takes 9 bullets to kill at "long" range... Don't you dare tell me my A-91 is worse than a 9 BTK 650 RPM mediocre PDW.

Also. Just go heavy barrel. The recoil is low enough.

Well, technically...

Comparing a PP2K with HB and an A-91 with comp and stubby (as you suggested in an earlier post), at 50m not moving, the A-91 is only better by 4 damage per hitrate. While at 75m and 100m, surprisingly the PP2K does better than the A-91 (I'm pretty damn surprised as well).

And 10m and 50m moving the PP2K also does more damage per hitrate than the A-91. At 25m the A-91 is only better by about half a bullet's damage as well.

In addition, the PP2K has a much larger mag size and substantially less recoil. And it looks hella awesome. So comparing the A-91 to a PDW is of some worth after all, as the PP2K is better (technically, not practically) than the A-91.

Mind blown.

I... I...

*cries in a corner*

Zer0Cod3x explained it very well. If you look at the raw numbers right here on Symthic Comparison, you can see how that happened:

A-91 vs PP-2000 | BF4 Weapon Comparison | Symthic

A-91's "23%" RPM advantage only afforded it 1 extra round.

Reload times are wash.

Velocities are wash.

V-Recoil are wash (and this is HBar on PP2k vs. A-91 without).

Hipfire and ADS - Moving are better on the PP2k, but it's a PDW and not the surprising part.

The surprising part is that, as equipped (and we see above that PP2k HBar has almost same V-Recoil as A-91 without HBar so why not?), the PDW performs better at 50 - 100m than a bloody Carbine. Why?

H-Recoil Spread, 0.525 vs. 0.45, advantage PP2k.

SIPS, 42% better on the PP2k.

And here is the most important part. ADS - Not Moving Spread, 0.35 vs. 0.2, 43% improvement.

Without HBar then of course the PP2k loses, which is why when I add all the attachments together for an Overall Ranking, it would slot below the A-91. Run HBar on it, though, then... I'm sorry

@Veritable
@Zer0Cod3x
I... I...
But...
Wha...
I AM HAVING AN EXISTENTIAL CRISIS IN SCHOOL BECAUSE OF YOU TWO.

FUCK YOU NERDS AND YOUR FANCY NUMBERS

SEXY RUSSIAN BULLPUPS FTW.

In all seriousness, thank you both so much for giving me the numbers. I still don't want to accept them. You have led the horse to water. I still need to drink.


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3,743

Wednesday, January 25th 2017, 9:15am

Precision is the reproducibility of something - ie if I do something the consequential result is the same or very similar between attempts.

Accuracy is how the consequential result is to the desired outcome.

In the battlefield context only weapons with a base (first shot) spread are inaccurate, and weapons that recoil add to the inaccuracy (ie it ruins your aim point so that you are no longer hitting your desired target/outcome). Otherwise all weapons are accurate but not precise because of spread, they land around the aim point but are clustered around the aim point.

The way I see it: recoil is a mechanism modifying accuracy, spread is a mechanism modifying precision.

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3,744

Wednesday, January 25th 2017, 10:26am

I kinda get the impression that he thinks any rifle should beat any rifle in any situation, if the player is good enough at aiming? I dunno what he's on about honestly. That video didn't make me howl with laughter but it did leave me scratching my head like 'what?'

Zer0Cod3x

Can't get a title

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3,745

Wednesday, January 25th 2017, 11:28am

I kinda get the impression that he thinks any rifle should beat any rifle in any situation, if the player is good enough at aiming? I dunno what he's on about honestly. That video didn't make me howl with laughter but it did leave me scratching my head like 'what?'

"I like DICE's RPS balance, but screw that, let's throw in a couple of weapons that allow me to bypass that balance because I can click a certain point on my screen"

Also, for some reason, there seems to be a fundamental assumption that random = bad and random =/= skill.
something something Model 8 bestgun


How to ice an A-91

Next, wanna try adding a guy that you KNOW is bad, and just testing to see that? Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

PP-2000 added. Y'know, it's not that bad....

Yes, it comes in last so far, but that is mostly because I'm making it shoot at 100m ADS - Not Moving as one of the criteria. Even then, between 50-100m Not Moving, when you include Useability, it is only 1.37% worse than the MTAR-21. Within 50m then it even beats the A-91.

Have a look, vs. the A-91 Carbine:




Using it with Muzzle Brake and Compensator is a wash in terms of overall performance. Comp is SLIGHTLY more accurate, while MB is SLIGHTLY more easy to use. Their overall scores are basically tied, with MB just ahead. I guess either can be recommended.

But... You can't be counting for the fact that it takes 9 bullets to kill at "long" range... Don't you dare tell me my A-91 is worse than a 9 BTK 650 RPM mediocre PDW.

Also. Just go heavy barrel. The recoil is low enough.

Well, technically...

Comparing a PP2K with HB and an A-91 with comp and stubby (as you suggested in an earlier post), at 50m not moving, the A-91 is only better by 4 damage per hitrate. While at 75m and 100m, surprisingly the PP2K does better than the A-91 (I'm pretty damn surprised as well).

And 10m and 50m moving the PP2K also does more damage per hitrate than the A-91. At 25m the A-91 is only better by about half a bullet's damage as well.

In addition, the PP2K has a much larger mag size and substantially less recoil. And it looks hella awesome. So comparing the A-91 to a PDW is of some worth after all, as the PP2K is better (technically, not practically) than the A-91.

Mind blown.

I... I...

*cries in a corner*

Zer0Cod3x explained it very well. If you look at the raw numbers right here on Symthic Comparison, you can see how that happened:

A-91 vs PP-2000 | BF4 Weapon Comparison | Symthic

A-91's "23%" RPM advantage only afforded it 1 extra round.

Reload times are wash.

Velocities are wash.

V-Recoil are wash (and this is HBar on PP2k vs. A-91 without).

Hipfire and ADS - Moving are better on the PP2k, but it's a PDW and not the surprising part.

The surprising part is that, as equipped (and we see above that PP2k HBar has almost same V-Recoil as A-91 without HBar so why not?), the PDW performs better at 50 - 100m than a bloody Carbine. Why?

H-Recoil Spread, 0.525 vs. 0.45, advantage PP2k.

SIPS, 42% better on the PP2k.

And here is the most important part. ADS - Not Moving Spread, 0.35 vs. 0.2, 43% improvement.

Without HBar then of course the PP2k loses, which is why when I add all the attachments together for an Overall Ranking, it would slot below the A-91. Run HBar on it, though, then... I'm sorry

@Veritable
@Zer0Cod3x
I... I...
But...
Wha...
I AM HAVING AN EXISTENTIAL CRISIS IN SCHOOL BECAUSE OF YOU TWO.

FUCK YOU NERDS AND YOUR FANCY NUMBERS

SEXY RUSSIAN BULLPUPS FTW.

In all seriousness, thank you both so much for giving me the numbers. I still don't want to accept them. You have led the horse to water. I still need to drink.


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3,746

Wednesday, January 25th 2017, 11:16pm

I kinda get the impression that he thinks any rifle should beat any rifle in any situation, if the player is good enough at aiming? I dunno what he's on about honestly. That video didn't make me howl with laughter but it did leave me scratching my head like 'what?'

"I like DICE's RPS balance, but screw that, let's throw in a couple of weapons that allow me to bypass that balance because I can click a certain point on my screen"

Also, for some reason, there seems to be a fundamental assumption that random = bad and random =/= skill.
He's obviously still a very good player in the statistical sense (ie compared to the average of the player base) and his perspective is clearly based around the notion that "well balanced games" provide him with a weapon tool that allows him to leverage his above average skill to beat on more average players. If it doesn't have this "skill cannon" it can't be a balanced game.

It's a totally BS and biased perspective based on the entirely flawed concept of "skilled vs casual". The whole "casual" admonishment is actually a genius little piece of propaganda. It leverages personal ego to sell a point: everyone would like to believe they are above or well above average, therefore they must disagree with anything that promotes casualness. This conveniently allows the bipassing of anything approaching rigorous though.

Brilliant really. A meme packaged for the masses.

It's interesting to note: My BF4 accuracies for all weapons are all sitting about 20% and my HSK are also at about 20% - very very similar stats to his. But I NEVER, NEVER aim specifically for the head. I always aim center of mass and hope recoil does it's thing. So his entire notion that it's because he's aiming for the head and hitting it is bullshit. Because I get the same result with a totally different input.

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: Oct 28th 2016

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3,747

Thursday, January 26th 2017, 5:20am

I kinda get the impression that he thinks any rifle should beat any rifle in any situation, if the player is good enough at aiming? I dunno what he's on about honestly. That video didn't make me howl with laughter but it did leave me scratching my head like 'what?'

"I like DICE's RPS balance, but screw that, let's throw in a couple of weapons that allow me to bypass that balance because I can click a certain point on my screen"

Also, for some reason, there seems to be a fundamental assumption that random = bad and random =/= skill.
He's obviously still a very good player in the statistical sense (ie compared to the average of the player base) and his perspective is clearly based around the notion that "well balanced games" provide him with a weapon tool that allows him to leverage his above average skill to beat on more average players. If it doesn't have this "skill cannon" it can't be a balanced game.

It's a totally BS and biased perspective based on the entirely flawed concept of "skilled vs casual". The whole "casual" admonishment is actually a genius little piece of propaganda. It leverages personal ego to sell a point: everyone would like to believe they are above or well above average, therefore they must disagree with anything that promotes casualness. This conveniently allows the bipassing of anything approaching rigorous though.

Brilliant really. A meme packaged for the masses.

It's interesting to note: My BF4 accuracies for all weapons are all sitting about 20% and my HSK are also at about 20% - very very similar stats to his. But I NEVER, NEVER aim specifically for the head. I always aim center of mass and hope recoil does it's thing. So his entire notion that it's because he's aiming for the head and hitting it is bullshit. Because I get the same result with a totally different input.
I'd argue he has a very flawed conception of what skill is defined as. XFactor seems to be one of the "aiming purists" that Noctyrne commonly refers to. (As a side note, Ravic is one of them as well, despite how incredibly skilled he is at the game. I found many of his negative comments related to the sweet spot mechanic to be very shallow.)

Skill has never been defined as a "point-and-click adventure" that emphasizes reflexes and precise muscle movements. Aim is one of the most basic requirement out of a player. Actual skill comes from measuring the advantages and disadvantages of what one has available to them, and using said resources to create effective strategies for victory against one's opponents. X and Ravic, I believe, are too proud of their own skill, making them incredibly narrow-minded when it comes to BF1's balance.

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: Jun 5th 2015

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Location: Hoth

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3,748

Thursday, January 26th 2017, 4:33pm

2:56-3:36

such skillgap. such depth. amazing gameplay wow. Those truly were the days.

signature 2.2

Things I support
ammo regen pls

Quoted from "NoctyrneSAGA"

_____
When I play with it [Autoloading 8] I feel like I am batman taking out 1 after 1 baddie while they feel helpless and don't know who is talking out their mates.
Remove 3D spotting. Itís a mechanic that rewards bad eyesight.
Wanna help your team by sneaking through enemy territory to provide spawns? THIS IS NOT TEAMWORK FGT I HOPE YOU RUN OUT OF MOTION BALLS TOO EARLY TO BE SUCCESSFUL
Wanna be Javelin squad but only have two guys? BETTER NOT GET YOUR SOFLAM KILLED FGT THIS IS NOT TEAMWORK WITHOUT A SUPPORT DUDE DROPPING AMMO ON YOU EVERY 2 MINUTES
Please post your best M1916 clips Magazines *fixed*.


DICE pls

Squadmate Healthbars in the HUD
Minor console QoL improvements
Ping Tool idea
"Wants to talk" tag for squad menu
Adding Suppression Confirmation
Spotting suggestions

Posts I should finish sometime:
Squad priority vehicle system (and anti stealing suggestion)
Scoring system flaws (and concept)
Battlefield definition
New helicopter idea
Suppression rework
Flow, immersion and fun in battlefield
Specializations: ideas and system rework
Gadget reworks and ideas
Why limited infinite ammo would be awesome
Other bitesize ideas



ViperFTW

Suidae cathexis

(2,737)

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: Jul 1st 2012

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3,749

Thursday, January 26th 2017, 6:59pm

2:56-3:36

such skillgap. such depth. amazing gameplay wow. Those truly were the days.


Can confirm as a BF3 and BF4 LMG main that he's talking utter bullshit :P

Everybody's Favourite Worthless Support and LMG Fan! :thumbsup:



Song currently stuck in my head is: Red Cold River by Breaking Benjamin!

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: Feb 25th 2012

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3,750

Thursday, January 26th 2017, 9:42pm

what game had that? arma? maybe cod? i don't remember battlefield ever NOT HAVING recoi decrese/reset.
"I'm just a loot whore."


stuff mostly unrelated to BF4 that interests nobody



bf4
on 13/05/2016
23rd M320FB user on pc(13/05/16)
rush mode score RANK:2794 TOP:2% OUT OF:215398
obliteration mode scoreRANK:994 TOP:1% OUT OF:159466
handgun medals RANK:2236 TOP:2% OUT OF:143874
longest headshot RANK:9512 TOP:4% OUT OF:257589
recon score RANK:10871 TOP:4% OUT OF:274899
general score per minute RANK:10016 TOP:4% OUT OF:294774

bf3
31/3/2012 4:58:

Headshot distance RANK:493* TOP:0%
Revives per assault minute RANK: 6019 TOP: 3%
Headshots / kill percentage RANK:25947 TOP:13%
MVP ribbons RANK:18824 TOP:11%

*= 6 if we not count the EOD BOT headshots

@kataklism

ARGUMENT DESTROYED 100

ENEMY KILLED [REASON] JSLICE20 100


WRITING SPREE STOPPED 500

link to full-size old avatar:
http://i.imgur.com/4X0321O.gif