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1,391

Monday, November 14th 2016, 3:25am

That 1971 album "Concerto grosso per i New Trolls" sounded like some funky version of orchestral music. I quite liked the first three songs out of those five. The second song in particular sounded like something that could have been from The Beatles. The fourth song was a bit too much for me though and the fifth song was just so unnecessarily long. Why was it not divided up into multiple tracks in the first place? There were clearly separate parts throughout its duration.

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1,392

Monday, November 14th 2016, 4:27am

@ChineseToTheBone

the last one afaik it's improvisation, that's the reason for the longevity, not that it matters though, many prog bands make long songs, example: emerson lake & palmer(Tarkus), pink floyd(Echoes), yes(Close to the edge), king crimson(various), and so on.
progresssive music, in this case rock, i sconsidered to be abranch of vrituosism, so many performs tend to... let's say, show off with these songs and just not carea bout people who might not want to listen to the whole thing, however bands lik ELP did also make "full-lenght songs" rboken into pieces in their relative album, in their case for example, karn evil is divided in 3 parts in the album but it is one long song with snips of other songs in it in live performances(Some might say that just that song could be an album of its own just by lenght)

by what you say though, i assume you would be more prone to listen to bands such as genesis, maybe yes, the later supertramp and possibly jethro tull? they're all bands ithat i don't hate, but with the excepttion of yes, are bands whom i don't care about, mainly because their "good moment" for me has been very short.
"I'm just a loot whore."


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bf4
on 13/05/2016
23rd M320FB user on pc(13/05/16)
rush mode score RANK:2794 TOP:2% OUT OF:215398
obliteration mode scoreRANK:994 TOP:1% OUT OF:159466
handgun medals RANK:2236 TOP:2% OUT OF:143874
longest headshot RANK:9512 TOP:4% OUT OF:257589
recon score RANK:10871 TOP:4% OUT OF:274899
general score per minute RANK:10016 TOP:4% OUT OF:294774

bf3
31/3/2012 4:58:

Headshot distance RANK:493* TOP:0%
Revives per assault minute RANK: 6019 TOP: 3%
Headshots / kill percentage RANK:25947 TOP:13%
MVP ribbons RANK:18824 TOP:11%

*= 6 if we not count the EOD BOT headshots

@kataklism

ARGUMENT DESTROYED 100

ENEMY KILLED [REASON] JSLICE20 100


WRITING SPREE STOPPED 500

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Zer0Cod3x

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1,393

Monday, November 14th 2016, 10:59am

sounded like some funky version of orchestral music.

The fourth song was a bit too much for me though and the fifth song was just so unnecessarily long.

Why was it not divided up into multiple tracks in the first place? There were clearly separate parts throughout its duration.

You have triggered me so hard right now :cursing:


On the actual music - whilst it's not hard to see the concerto grosso-inspired elements, such as the violins, Baroque chord progressions (I thought the cycle of fifths in the first movement of Concerto Grosso No 1 was quite interesting), I feel like they could have done more. There's a lot more to a concerto grosso than simply tone colour and a chord progression. There's the alternating ritornello -> episode structure, the basso continuo, constant rhythmic drive, unity of mood, etc, that wasn't in the piece.

It's basically a pop song with violins and occasionally a Baroque chord progression. I would have appreciated a little more Baroque inspiration than surface characteristics.

---



I'm currently playing this in my orchestra at the moment. It's possibly one of the WORST. FUCKING. PIECES. I. HAVE. EVER. HEARD.

I absolutely despise this. I'm glad I don't have to play it past next week ever again.


Then scrolling down in the comments below, seeing "ermagherd dis iz sooooooo bootifull"... :cursing:
something something Model 8 bestgun


How to ice an A-91

Next, wanna try adding a guy that you KNOW is bad, and just testing to see that? Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

PP-2000 added. Y'know, it's not that bad....

Yes, it comes in last so far, but that is mostly because I'm making it shoot at 100m ADS - Not Moving as one of the criteria. Even then, between 50-100m Not Moving, when you include Useability, it is only 1.37% worse than the MTAR-21. Within 50m then it even beats the A-91.

Have a look, vs. the A-91 Carbine:




Using it with Muzzle Brake and Compensator is a wash in terms of overall performance. Comp is SLIGHTLY more accurate, while MB is SLIGHTLY more easy to use. Their overall scores are basically tied, with MB just ahead. I guess either can be recommended.

But... You can't be counting for the fact that it takes 9 bullets to kill at "long" range... Don't you dare tell me my A-91 is worse than a 9 BTK 650 RPM mediocre PDW.

Also. Just go heavy barrel. The recoil is low enough.

Well, technically...

Comparing a PP2K with HB and an A-91 with comp and stubby (as you suggested in an earlier post), at 50m not moving, the A-91 is only better by 4 damage per hitrate. While at 75m and 100m, surprisingly the PP2K does better than the A-91 (I'm pretty damn surprised as well).

And 10m and 50m moving the PP2K also does more damage per hitrate than the A-91. At 25m the A-91 is only better by about half a bullet's damage as well.

In addition, the PP2K has a much larger mag size and substantially less recoil. And it looks hella awesome. So comparing the A-91 to a PDW is of some worth after all, as the PP2K is better (technically, not practically) than the A-91.

Mind blown.

I... I...

*cries in a corner*

Zer0Cod3x explained it very well. If you look at the raw numbers right here on Symthic Comparison, you can see how that happened:

A-91 vs PP-2000 | BF4 Weapon Comparison | Symthic

A-91's "23%" RPM advantage only afforded it 1 extra round.

Reload times are wash.

Velocities are wash.

V-Recoil are wash (and this is HBar on PP2k vs. A-91 without).

Hipfire and ADS - Moving are better on the PP2k, but it's a PDW and not the surprising part.

The surprising part is that, as equipped (and we see above that PP2k HBar has almost same V-Recoil as A-91 without HBar so why not?), the PDW performs better at 50 - 100m than a bloody Carbine. Why?

H-Recoil Spread, 0.525 vs. 0.45, advantage PP2k.

SIPS, 42% better on the PP2k.

And here is the most important part. ADS - Not Moving Spread, 0.35 vs. 0.2, 43% improvement.

Without HBar then of course the PP2k loses, which is why when I add all the attachments together for an Overall Ranking, it would slot below the A-91. Run HBar on it, though, then... I'm sorry

@Veritable
@Zer0Cod3x
I... I...
But...
Wha...
I AM HAVING AN EXISTENTIAL CRISIS IN SCHOOL BECAUSE OF YOU TWO.

FUCK YOU NERDS AND YOUR FANCY NUMBERS

SEXY RUSSIAN BULLPUPS FTW.

In all seriousness, thank you both so much for giving me the numbers. I still don't want to accept them. You have led the horse to water. I still need to drink.


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1,394

Monday, November 14th 2016, 11:53am

It's basically a pop song with violins and occasionally a Baroque chord progression. I would have appreciated a little more Baroque inspiration than surface characteristics.

well, to be fair, at least according to what my brother said after listening to a 40-60 minutes podcast on the band and this album specifically, concerto grosso 1 started off as the ost for a movie or something, the new trolls were a band made on prupose to support the original orchestra master(or whatever it's called) again, afaik.
sure, more could be done, but i think it's still very good... it's not everyday that you hear a mix of an actual orchestra with prog rock after all.
oh and by the way... saying that prog is pop it's kinda like saying that classical music is done via electrical instruments.
modern music would be more fitting... though remember that prog died exactly because it wasn't pop, considering how pop started to be what it is after the rock era so starting from around the '80s

however you are right on one thing: new trolls did focus on pop music not much time after the first albums, in fact, when my brother made listen my father and mother this album, my parents had no idea they were the new trolls, they litereally wouldn't believe him until he shoved into their ace the cover of the album with their name and the name of the album.

if i were to describe this album... i'd say it's the most expectable mix between concert orchestral music, italian music from 70-90s period and, obviously a decent but not extremely good prog rock style, in fact the first song and the improvisations are my favorites in this album(my brother's favorite seems to be adagio, though i did not ask, perhaps it's just the one that stuck the most in his head).
in my opinion it is mostly a good album, even though it has some negative aspects to it(said by someone who finds "normal" orchestral music boring as fuck, with the song you linked after being the epythome of non electronic music that bores me(electric music can bore me way more than that) so take that with a spoonful of salt... or whatever they figure of speech was)

i'm more of the guy to appreciate individual musical skills to coordinated group ones, not for any particular reasons though, i just like that more, guess due to how i grew up(my mother is the only who listens to orchestral music somewhat regularly and everyone min my family except my brother considered it boring, so they probably influenced me, but still made me grow up with shitty stuff like -ugh- gigi d'alessio or blue or whatever they were called, and then thankfully my father came in with deep puprle(made in japan), pink floyd(everything post-syd barret) and led zeppelin(mainly LZII) , and also some bits of uriah heep, of which i liked a lot wake up(set your sights) from their first album)


btw, seeing as you seem to know a bit more about music than most people i ever talked to, what fo you think of this?

Rick Wakeman - The Six Wives of Henry VIII (Full Album 1973) - YouTube

my brother the other day came in my room screaming(just after making me listen to in the land of grey and pink from caravan) saying how this was an awesome album.... i mean, it's not bad, at all, but... i dunno, it feels like, soulless, i don't know how to put it, it's like the artist tries WAY too hard to impress the listener,(yes, even more than the average prog or math rock band) and exceeds his actual capabilities, but i might be wrong, what's your opinion?

then again i didn't listen to it actively but only with it in the background...

edit:
you know i am ignorant, very ignorant, i didn't study pretty much anything past elementary school after all, but it amazes me how i always missed that part of how prog is actually somewhat similar to pop even though it feels so different... though the fact that my brother who actually studied, unlike me says that, tells me that you two are probably the ones right.
i always thought prog was always something considered visionary and virtuosistic, pretty much the opposite of pop music, it never occured to me that maybe it wasn't pop(or to say, POPular music) overtaking prog, but rather prog evolving into pop.
fuck my braincells, fuck those papers that say i'm smarter than the average person, i'm goddamn dumb.
"I'm just a loot whore."


stuff mostly unrelated to BF4 that interests nobody



bf4
on 13/05/2016
23rd M320FB user on pc(13/05/16)
rush mode score RANK:2794 TOP:2% OUT OF:215398
obliteration mode scoreRANK:994 TOP:1% OUT OF:159466
handgun medals RANK:2236 TOP:2% OUT OF:143874
longest headshot RANK:9512 TOP:4% OUT OF:257589
recon score RANK:10871 TOP:4% OUT OF:274899
general score per minute RANK:10016 TOP:4% OUT OF:294774

bf3
31/3/2012 4:58:

Headshot distance RANK:493* TOP:0%
Revives per assault minute RANK: 6019 TOP: 3%
Headshots / kill percentage RANK:25947 TOP:13%
MVP ribbons RANK:18824 TOP:11%

*= 6 if we not count the EOD BOT headshots

@kataklism

ARGUMENT DESTROYED 100

ENEMY KILLED [REASON] JSLICE20 100


WRITING SPREE STOPPED 500

link to full-size old avatar:
http://i.imgur.com/4X0321O.gif



This post has been edited 4 times, last edit by "iota-09" (Nov 14th 2016, 12:30pm)


Zer0Cod3x

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1,395

Monday, November 14th 2016, 2:07pm

if i were to describe this album... i'd say it's the most expectable mix between concert orchestral music, italian music from 70-90s period and, obviously a decent but not extremely good prog rock style



This is Rhapsody in Blue by George Gershwin, personally, one of my favourite pieces of music. He's a fusion of Classical music and Jazz, and a very effective fusion of that. Rhapsody in Blue borrows elements of music from both Classical and Jazz; the end result is something that doesn't quite sound like Classical, yet also doesn't quite sound like Jazz, instead, it sounds like something new and interesting, when it is simply a fusion of the two.

Whereas, as I said, the New Trolls Concerto Grosso, whilst using a few Baroque elements, still sounds fundamentally pop-like. Perhaps you might consider this a good thing, I would have personally expected something closer to the Gershwin.

you know i am ignorant, very ignorant, i didn't study pretty much anything past elementary school after all, but it amazes me how i always missed that part of how prog is actually somewhat similar to pop even though it feels so different... though the fact that my brother who actually studied, unlike me says that, tells me that you two are probably the ones right.
i always thought prog was always something considered visionary and virtuosistic, pretty much the opposite of pop music, it never occured to me that maybe it wasn't pop(or to say, POPular music) overtaking prog, but rather prog evolving into pop.

I don't really know the difference between progressive rock and pop. I don't have enough experience to be able to distinguish the two.

It's like you blanketing Baroque, Classical, Romantic, and 20th Century music under the "classical music" umbrella. You wouldn't be able to tell the difference, whereas I would become very annoyed with you.

Rick Wakeman - The Six Wives of Henry VIII (Full Album 1973) - YouTube

my brother the other day came in my room screaming(just after making me listen to in the land of grey and pink from caravan) saying how this was an awesome album.... i mean, it's not bad, at all, but... i dunno, it feels like, soulless, i don't know how to put it, it's like the artist tries WAY too hard to impress the listener,(yes, even more than the average prog or math rock band) and exceeds his actual capabilities, but i might be wrong, what's your opinion?

The problem with you or your brother stating that this is an "awesome album" or "soulless" is that you're judging it subjectively. If you're going to do that, then there's no point in arguing.

Objectively, this is kitsch music. That's not to say it's bad - in fact, there's a lot of kitsch music that is good (as well as lots that is bad). What makes kitsch music good is not what makes other, more intellectual styles of music good.


I do think this is a good album. Progressive rock, in nature, generally satisfies what makes kitsch music good - constant reinvention and remixing of different blends of tone colours and textures (as well as occasionally, unconventional rhythms and melodies/harmonies, though this is much more rare). The Wakeman piece you showed me certainly fits into that category.

Then again, I'd imagine there'd be a lot of progressive rock which takes this idea of "reinvention" too far - which I suspect is what you believe to be the case for the Wakeman. Personally, I don't think so, I quite like the more traditional and electronic touches, but that's personal taste, not objective analysis.
something something Model 8 bestgun


How to ice an A-91

Next, wanna try adding a guy that you KNOW is bad, and just testing to see that? Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

PP-2000 added. Y'know, it's not that bad....

Yes, it comes in last so far, but that is mostly because I'm making it shoot at 100m ADS - Not Moving as one of the criteria. Even then, between 50-100m Not Moving, when you include Useability, it is only 1.37% worse than the MTAR-21. Within 50m then it even beats the A-91.

Have a look, vs. the A-91 Carbine:




Using it with Muzzle Brake and Compensator is a wash in terms of overall performance. Comp is SLIGHTLY more accurate, while MB is SLIGHTLY more easy to use. Their overall scores are basically tied, with MB just ahead. I guess either can be recommended.

But... You can't be counting for the fact that it takes 9 bullets to kill at "long" range... Don't you dare tell me my A-91 is worse than a 9 BTK 650 RPM mediocre PDW.

Also. Just go heavy barrel. The recoil is low enough.

Well, technically...

Comparing a PP2K with HB and an A-91 with comp and stubby (as you suggested in an earlier post), at 50m not moving, the A-91 is only better by 4 damage per hitrate. While at 75m and 100m, surprisingly the PP2K does better than the A-91 (I'm pretty damn surprised as well).

And 10m and 50m moving the PP2K also does more damage per hitrate than the A-91. At 25m the A-91 is only better by about half a bullet's damage as well.

In addition, the PP2K has a much larger mag size and substantially less recoil. And it looks hella awesome. So comparing the A-91 to a PDW is of some worth after all, as the PP2K is better (technically, not practically) than the A-91.

Mind blown.

I... I...

*cries in a corner*

Zer0Cod3x explained it very well. If you look at the raw numbers right here on Symthic Comparison, you can see how that happened:

A-91 vs PP-2000 | BF4 Weapon Comparison | Symthic

A-91's "23%" RPM advantage only afforded it 1 extra round.

Reload times are wash.

Velocities are wash.

V-Recoil are wash (and this is HBar on PP2k vs. A-91 without).

Hipfire and ADS - Moving are better on the PP2k, but it's a PDW and not the surprising part.

The surprising part is that, as equipped (and we see above that PP2k HBar has almost same V-Recoil as A-91 without HBar so why not?), the PDW performs better at 50 - 100m than a bloody Carbine. Why?

H-Recoil Spread, 0.525 vs. 0.45, advantage PP2k.

SIPS, 42% better on the PP2k.

And here is the most important part. ADS - Not Moving Spread, 0.35 vs. 0.2, 43% improvement.

Without HBar then of course the PP2k loses, which is why when I add all the attachments together for an Overall Ranking, it would slot below the A-91. Run HBar on it, though, then... I'm sorry

@Veritable
@Zer0Cod3x
I... I...
But...
Wha...
I AM HAVING AN EXISTENTIAL CRISIS IN SCHOOL BECAUSE OF YOU TWO.

FUCK YOU NERDS AND YOUR FANCY NUMBERS

SEXY RUSSIAN BULLPUPS FTW.

In all seriousness, thank you both so much for giving me the numbers. I still don't want to accept them. You have led the horse to water. I still need to drink.


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: Feb 25th 2012

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1,396

Monday, November 14th 2016, 3:05pm

i don't have time so i'll answer only to the last words:

nonono, in fact, i'd say the more modern parts in that one i like, it's the piano parts... i usually like some nice piano piece, one of my favorite classic piano artists for example chopin, but this one, just doesn't feel right, it's weird, i already mentioned before how i usually don't judge music by feeling but rather by complexity of the task, and yet, here i just didn't enjoy the music, i have no clue why that is,though it's not like i disliked everything, there are parts in it theat i enjoyed(though i don't remember which ones)
i also like the reinvention part, i started my steps into prog rock starting from pink floyd's ummagumma, then the Gong(both being to a decent extent psychedelic), after that i want backwards in time with yes(from fragile to the first album, i especially enjoy close to the edge and siberian khatru) and i would usually alternate after that between normal and visionary styles of prog, such as in fact banco and king crimson, but then elo(the first 2 albums which were better) and then gentle giant,s, then elp, and then again the first 2 album of supertramp, even going as far as giraffes giraffes, which are a fairly modern band playing a mix of prog and math rock with singer.
i usually liked the more non-common-like(at least for the time period) pieces of all these.

ps: the dude you linked is not bad at all, thugh i only listened to some parts, specifically in this istant i'm listening the 3 mins mark, i'll have to stop here though,later.

as for my brother, he does judge music usually by technique(rather than by complexity) though he judges by emotion a bit more often than me, i guess some times feelings are just more strong than one's own objective judgement, and other times it's the other way around...


in conclusion, it appears that i do indeed judge by feeling as well sometimes, just not as often as others, and it is the reason why i may not be able to explain why i don't like some songs that my brother likes(we have almost the same tastes, naturally)
"I'm just a loot whore."


stuff mostly unrelated to BF4 that interests nobody



bf4
on 13/05/2016
23rd M320FB user on pc(13/05/16)
rush mode score RANK:2794 TOP:2% OUT OF:215398
obliteration mode scoreRANK:994 TOP:1% OUT OF:159466
handgun medals RANK:2236 TOP:2% OUT OF:143874
longest headshot RANK:9512 TOP:4% OUT OF:257589
recon score RANK:10871 TOP:4% OUT OF:274899
general score per minute RANK:10016 TOP:4% OUT OF:294774

bf3
31/3/2012 4:58:

Headshot distance RANK:493* TOP:0%
Revives per assault minute RANK: 6019 TOP: 3%
Headshots / kill percentage RANK:25947 TOP:13%
MVP ribbons RANK:18824 TOP:11%

*= 6 if we not count the EOD BOT headshots

@kataklism

ARGUMENT DESTROYED 100

ENEMY KILLED [REASON] JSLICE20 100


WRITING SPREE STOPPED 500

link to full-size old avatar:
http://i.imgur.com/4X0321O.gif




Zer0Cod3x

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1,397

Tuesday, November 15th 2016, 9:35am

i usually don't judge music by feeling but rather by complexity of the task

as for my brother, he does judge music usually by technique(rather than by complexity)

I have no idea what you mean by this.

---

What you've got to realise is that whether you like a piece of music is completely different from whether or not that piece of music is actually good. A piece of music can be bad, yet still likeable (99% of kitsch music), just as a piece can be good, yet you might hate it (Expressionism).
something something Model 8 bestgun


How to ice an A-91

Next, wanna try adding a guy that you KNOW is bad, and just testing to see that? Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

PP-2000 added. Y'know, it's not that bad....

Yes, it comes in last so far, but that is mostly because I'm making it shoot at 100m ADS - Not Moving as one of the criteria. Even then, between 50-100m Not Moving, when you include Useability, it is only 1.37% worse than the MTAR-21. Within 50m then it even beats the A-91.

Have a look, vs. the A-91 Carbine:




Using it with Muzzle Brake and Compensator is a wash in terms of overall performance. Comp is SLIGHTLY more accurate, while MB is SLIGHTLY more easy to use. Their overall scores are basically tied, with MB just ahead. I guess either can be recommended.

But... You can't be counting for the fact that it takes 9 bullets to kill at "long" range... Don't you dare tell me my A-91 is worse than a 9 BTK 650 RPM mediocre PDW.

Also. Just go heavy barrel. The recoil is low enough.

Well, technically...

Comparing a PP2K with HB and an A-91 with comp and stubby (as you suggested in an earlier post), at 50m not moving, the A-91 is only better by 4 damage per hitrate. While at 75m and 100m, surprisingly the PP2K does better than the A-91 (I'm pretty damn surprised as well).

And 10m and 50m moving the PP2K also does more damage per hitrate than the A-91. At 25m the A-91 is only better by about half a bullet's damage as well.

In addition, the PP2K has a much larger mag size and substantially less recoil. And it looks hella awesome. So comparing the A-91 to a PDW is of some worth after all, as the PP2K is better (technically, not practically) than the A-91.

Mind blown.

I... I...

*cries in a corner*

Zer0Cod3x explained it very well. If you look at the raw numbers right here on Symthic Comparison, you can see how that happened:

A-91 vs PP-2000 | BF4 Weapon Comparison | Symthic

A-91's "23%" RPM advantage only afforded it 1 extra round.

Reload times are wash.

Velocities are wash.

V-Recoil are wash (and this is HBar on PP2k vs. A-91 without).

Hipfire and ADS - Moving are better on the PP2k, but it's a PDW and not the surprising part.

The surprising part is that, as equipped (and we see above that PP2k HBar has almost same V-Recoil as A-91 without HBar so why not?), the PDW performs better at 50 - 100m than a bloody Carbine. Why?

H-Recoil Spread, 0.525 vs. 0.45, advantage PP2k.

SIPS, 42% better on the PP2k.

And here is the most important part. ADS - Not Moving Spread, 0.35 vs. 0.2, 43% improvement.

Without HBar then of course the PP2k loses, which is why when I add all the attachments together for an Overall Ranking, it would slot below the A-91. Run HBar on it, though, then... I'm sorry

@Veritable
@Zer0Cod3x
I... I...
But...
Wha...
I AM HAVING AN EXISTENTIAL CRISIS IN SCHOOL BECAUSE OF YOU TWO.

FUCK YOU NERDS AND YOUR FANCY NUMBERS

SEXY RUSSIAN BULLPUPS FTW.

In all seriousness, thank you both so much for giving me the numbers. I still don't want to accept them. You have led the horse to water. I still need to drink.


Posts: 7,809

Date of registration
: Feb 25th 2012

Platform: PC

Location: italy

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 19

  • Send private message

1,398

Tuesday, November 15th 2016, 9:44am

technique is not related to complexity, complexity=how hard it is, technique=the way it's done
"I'm just a loot whore."


stuff mostly unrelated to BF4 that interests nobody



bf4
on 13/05/2016
23rd M320FB user on pc(13/05/16)
rush mode score RANK:2794 TOP:2% OUT OF:215398
obliteration mode scoreRANK:994 TOP:1% OUT OF:159466
handgun medals RANK:2236 TOP:2% OUT OF:143874
longest headshot RANK:9512 TOP:4% OUT OF:257589
recon score RANK:10871 TOP:4% OUT OF:274899
general score per minute RANK:10016 TOP:4% OUT OF:294774

bf3
31/3/2012 4:58:

Headshot distance RANK:493* TOP:0%
Revives per assault minute RANK: 6019 TOP: 3%
Headshots / kill percentage RANK:25947 TOP:13%
MVP ribbons RANK:18824 TOP:11%

*= 6 if we not count the EOD BOT headshots

@kataklism

ARGUMENT DESTROYED 100

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Zer0Cod3x

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Tuesday, November 15th 2016, 10:57am

technique is not related to complexity, complexity=how hard it is, technique=the way it's done

You mean in terms of performance?

Relatively speaking, there's nothing very difficult about performing pop songs.
something something Model 8 bestgun


How to ice an A-91

Next, wanna try adding a guy that you KNOW is bad, and just testing to see that? Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

PP-2000 added. Y'know, it's not that bad....

Yes, it comes in last so far, but that is mostly because I'm making it shoot at 100m ADS - Not Moving as one of the criteria. Even then, between 50-100m Not Moving, when you include Useability, it is only 1.37% worse than the MTAR-21. Within 50m then it even beats the A-91.

Have a look, vs. the A-91 Carbine:




Using it with Muzzle Brake and Compensator is a wash in terms of overall performance. Comp is SLIGHTLY more accurate, while MB is SLIGHTLY more easy to use. Their overall scores are basically tied, with MB just ahead. I guess either can be recommended.

But... You can't be counting for the fact that it takes 9 bullets to kill at "long" range... Don't you dare tell me my A-91 is worse than a 9 BTK 650 RPM mediocre PDW.

Also. Just go heavy barrel. The recoil is low enough.

Well, technically...

Comparing a PP2K with HB and an A-91 with comp and stubby (as you suggested in an earlier post), at 50m not moving, the A-91 is only better by 4 damage per hitrate. While at 75m and 100m, surprisingly the PP2K does better than the A-91 (I'm pretty damn surprised as well).

And 10m and 50m moving the PP2K also does more damage per hitrate than the A-91. At 25m the A-91 is only better by about half a bullet's damage as well.

In addition, the PP2K has a much larger mag size and substantially less recoil. And it looks hella awesome. So comparing the A-91 to a PDW is of some worth after all, as the PP2K is better (technically, not practically) than the A-91.

Mind blown.

I... I...

*cries in a corner*

Zer0Cod3x explained it very well. If you look at the raw numbers right here on Symthic Comparison, you can see how that happened:

A-91 vs PP-2000 | BF4 Weapon Comparison | Symthic

A-91's "23%" RPM advantage only afforded it 1 extra round.

Reload times are wash.

Velocities are wash.

V-Recoil are wash (and this is HBar on PP2k vs. A-91 without).

Hipfire and ADS - Moving are better on the PP2k, but it's a PDW and not the surprising part.

The surprising part is that, as equipped (and we see above that PP2k HBar has almost same V-Recoil as A-91 without HBar so why not?), the PDW performs better at 50 - 100m than a bloody Carbine. Why?

H-Recoil Spread, 0.525 vs. 0.45, advantage PP2k.

SIPS, 42% better on the PP2k.

And here is the most important part. ADS - Not Moving Spread, 0.35 vs. 0.2, 43% improvement.

Without HBar then of course the PP2k loses, which is why when I add all the attachments together for an Overall Ranking, it would slot below the A-91. Run HBar on it, though, then... I'm sorry

@Veritable
@Zer0Cod3x
I... I...
But...
Wha...
I AM HAVING AN EXISTENTIAL CRISIS IN SCHOOL BECAUSE OF YOU TWO.

FUCK YOU NERDS AND YOUR FANCY NUMBERS

SEXY RUSSIAN BULLPUPS FTW.

In all seriousness, thank you both so much for giving me the numbers. I still don't want to accept them. You have led the horse to water. I still need to drink.


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Tuesday, November 15th 2016, 11:33am

yeah, but prog is different because it tries to apply virtuosism(and other things) to rock, that's why my brother and i got interested into it, because out of everything in modern music, it is arguably the one type that more of all tries to be hard to replicate in terms of skills and speed.
like, you can't really say that making an incredibly beautiful melody which somehow is good while still using all of your fingers on a piano(or even multiple ones) almost at the same time while accompanied to modern instruments to be "not very difficult" (very simple example)

that's what i consider complexity, the harder it is for a single human being to execute, the more complex it is, and without entering the world of digital music(e.g. touhou osts and eurobeat or others) prog (at least for the ones i know) seems to be the most complex, though it obviously depends on the performers.
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@kataklism

ARGUMENT DESTROYED 100

ENEMY KILLED [REASON] JSLICE20 100


WRITING SPREE STOPPED 500

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