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Wednesday, December 6th 2017, 1:39am

Yeah I've tried reading (non-H, let's be honest) manga, but it's not quite as much for me as watching anime. It might be better within the pure romance genre, but if there's significant action sequences manga always stops appealing to me.

Just finished Nazo no Kanojo X. The ending is kinda unsatisfactory, because it stops WAY before the finish line you wanted. But then again, so does the Manga itself (looked it up). Up to the point where I realized things would end prematurely I *really* enjoyed its different take on romance, but was kinda let down that it still hardly got anywhere really. Not that the final episode was bad, it just didn't satisfy expectations.

It stands out for treating the characters' insecurities and weaknesses with dignity (fortunately the male lead kinda moves beyond being a viewer insert at ep. 8 ), delicately portraying some more difficult aspects of romance and relationship, and has an amazing soundtrack. While there is some skin, some swimsuits and some silhouette nudity I found it to be implemented rather tastefully and not fanservice-y. It's also noteworthy that during the whole run of this show that is so rich in clearly sexualized and fetishized symbolism and outright sensual scenes I never had "the weirdes boner", but was almost drooling on the edge of my seat (you'll get it when you watch it). Speaks to its tastefulness if you ask me.

Anyway I'mma go off on a rant here right now.

I don't like the feeling that I shouldn't be loving romance because I'm an adult man (regardless of medium). I know I love a decent romance, most of my favourite anime have a rather pronounced romantic element to them. I'm kinda sure that growing up with Final Fantasy 7 and 8 as well as Baldur's Gate 2 being some of the most influential media installments in my personal childhood/youth may have influenced me to like romance elements in fiction. Whenever I replay a game like Mass Effect 2 or 3 for the story, it's not about the larger conflict or the world, it's about the characters and their interaction, not only the romantic ones. That's also why I think Dragon Age 2 is my favourite part of the trilogy - its story was focused on the characters, not on some generic "SAVE THE KINGDOM" quest.

Do I need to care whether there's societal pressure against this preference? Not really, I've been in a stable relationship for ten years now, married three years ago. I don't need to have "manly" hobbies to impress potential girlfriends. My wife is completely fine with it, although it's not her cup of tea - she's more into action focused shows, shorter shounen included.

Still I feel that, while it might be *somewhat* okay to admit to enjoying anime, it feels highly out of place and risqué to admit to liking romance anime of all things outside of certain circles. Hentai? Sure, you can dig that. I mean it's weird and fetishy, but hey, it's still just porn. Dragon Ball? Yeah, why not, it's childhood memories and nostalgia, so go for it (note: I haven't watched DB in at least twelve years and have no desire to anymore). Romantic comedies? What, are you a teenage girl?

Maybe it's just that I don't really have anyone of my sex/gender to talk to about anime IRL - I really only discuss it with my wife and her sister - so this is basically the only other place I where feel comfortable doing so.

It feels like an even greater social stigma to me than watching MLP / being a Brony a few years ago. They/we were loud and proud enough to leave some cracks in the "shut in nerd" image. On that note I probably should catch up on the last season and a half I missed...



Oh yeah, and right now I'd *really* love a tasteful romance anime that doesn't shy away from sexual topics. Or maybe I should start um... what's the right word? reading? playing? doing? visual novels.
Zormau - Battlelog / Battlefield 4

Memorable quotes not taken yet:


Of course, this ignores the non-constant cross-sectional first moment of area across the chest as well as non-constant material properties of the boob; it would be difficult to perform a more detailed analysis (as in, I'd have to have a shape function AND I'd need to derive a function for elastic modulus as a function of lateral breast coordinate) but whatever. It's 2am and I'm lazy.


I always believed science should be very hands on experience.

You should also answer this question I had posed in that thread: Would you be willing to pay your surgeon more if he was going to use a chainsaw for the opening incision of surgery? Clearly using a chainsaw isn't truly suited for surgery but that doesn't really matter. If he's "skilled" enough to be able to use the wrong tools of the trade, he should be rewarded for that skill right?

This post has been edited 3 times, last edit by "Zormau" (Dec 6th 2017, 2:11am)


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Wednesday, December 6th 2017, 3:02am

i honestly always thought there's more people bitching about male kids watching romance anime than adults, in fact, i've never seen anyone complaining about an adult man watching a romance anime, if not maybe for the age of the protagonists(but that's kind of in the "debatefor sake of debate" territory...)
in fact, i'd say yours is a very weird case, because while i completely understand and in some traits even share the negative stigma for mlp, i've never witnessed such a great negative animosity towards romance anime for adult men, now if it was mahou shoujo like say, tokyo mew mew or pretty cure,yeah, that one does have a stigma less or more comparable to mlp for adult men, but straight romance anime?
you live in a weird place dude, because i've never seen that(unless it was for gaming/anime in general, but that's more of a cultural issue).

as for stuff that taks about sexual opics: still tsurezure children(although it is very "to-the-ground" about it, but also very realistic, considering the age and experience of the various characters)


p.s.: if you go around saying you like hentai you're basically going around saying yuo fap and with a very specific idea in mind too to the entire world, again, not sure what circles you go around(4chan? cause that's what it seems like) but where i live there'd be quite a "fissure" between those who'd accept such a statement and those that would litterally block you from any social media asap.


i do have something odd to ask though: how many of you actually watch anime with their parents? and i don't mean lovers/brothers/cousins, i mean like, father/mother/aunt/uncle, because for example if i say "oh yeah i watch natsume yuujinchou" everything's fine, but if i say "oh yeah, i watch natsume yuujichou, it's my mother's favorite series and i watch it with her" everyone just stays silent like the conversation instantly died.
i mean, what's weird with that? surely other people watched movies and tv serieses with their parents, so... ???

p.p.s: another stigma i don't understand is how watching something like steven universe or adventure time for example either makes youu childish or some kind of sick dude when it i really don't see a reason for it, it's litterally just an adventure cartoon with most times arguably comical events and other times arguably touching and sensible topics handled... so, i don't understand? (note: sayingthis because that's the case online too, obviously in italy people still believe every cartoon that hasn't aired on fox or mtv is for children)
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This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "iota-09" (Dec 6th 2017, 3:09am)


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Wednesday, December 6th 2017, 3:47am

So the thing is that the societal pressure I'm talking about has no real grounding in experience. At least I can't remember any specifics that led to it and I haven't been burned by it in at least a decade. I also refrain from telling practically anybody that I watch anime at all, though. I mean sure, my close friends know (and also watch as far as I know), but it's not something that's part of my "public" persona.
You've got a point, within my age group it should be no problem to "out" myself about romance if an appropriate occasion ever came up.

Of course I don't go around discussing porn (real, animated or drawn) with people, not on the internet and not IRL (which is what I am mostly complaining about). I might if it comes up, but that'll be very specific circumstances and people. I still stand by my point that *I feel* it's more appropriate for guys (at least in the "digital native" generations younger than mine tbh) to discuss porn and hentai (within limits) rather than lovestories. Realistically speaking "I fap" is non-information for young males. Of course you do. You're more suspect to my generation if you're a guy who sais he doesn't. It's not discussed and you will get funny looks if you openly say it, but it's absolutely assumed.


The whole issue's definitely a "cultural" thing, not even really tied to a certain place in the western world, but rather simply an underlying impression, an unspoken rule I perceive.
I guess "it's drawn/animated, so it must be targeted at children" is a western stereotype that will be sticking around a few more decades, and until then "Watership Down" controversies will repeat every now and then. Kinda sad, though, that people thus keep themselves from such a rich treasure of entertainment. I think some western animation has already started to crack that image (South Park, Simpsons, Family Guy) for many adults, but Japanese anime is a whole 'nother story.


P.S.
I'd actually really like to introduce my mom to anime, but I haven't ever found the right combination of medium (what?) and moment (when?). The first venture into anime needs to be tailored to the individual with older viewers I think. I had considered things like Kino's Journey (original run), due to its episodic nature (no pressure to watch the whole thing quickly) and slow/contemplative yet extremely well-paced approach. Mushi-Shi is another candidate when it comes to shows, although it does have more episodes IIRC. I'm not too well-versed when it comes to movies, so apart from some Ghibli movies (mostly The Wind Rises) I couldn't really name anything I know might please her.
Zormau - Battlelog / Battlefield 4

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Of course, this ignores the non-constant cross-sectional first moment of area across the chest as well as non-constant material properties of the boob; it would be difficult to perform a more detailed analysis (as in, I'd have to have a shape function AND I'd need to derive a function for elastic modulus as a function of lateral breast coordinate) but whatever. It's 2am and I'm lazy.


I always believed science should be very hands on experience.

You should also answer this question I had posed in that thread: Would you be willing to pay your surgeon more if he was going to use a chainsaw for the opening incision of surgery? Clearly using a chainsaw isn't truly suited for surgery but that doesn't really matter. If he's "skilled" enough to be able to use the wrong tools of the trade, he should be rewarded for that skill right?

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Zormau" (Dec 6th 2017, 3:53am)


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Wednesday, December 6th 2017, 5:01am

i think bartender might be the best bet for an episodic anime that could intrigue an older woman, especially if she likes drinking cocktails ; as for non-episodic ones, apparently my mother watched an epiosde of abenobashi(on litterally th onlychannel we have onitalian tv that ragularly shows anime 24/7(less or more) all by herself, and i never watched it, so maybe that one's good too?
if i were to make my father watch something it'd undoubtedly be jojo though, lots of (gory)action and a whole lot of 70's music references(first coming to mind being tarkus, one of my family's favorite albums from ELP) and it also drives a lot of inspiration from ken the warrior, fist of the north star, which was extremely popular in italy till the early 2000

as for the problem... well, it depends on people, usually those that will bug about something like romance will bug about any non hentai anime in general, so there the problem is the people from an even more deeper starting point, as for what i've seen in a non joking way it's still far more common for people to talk about romance anime than to see them mention porn, unless it's about memes obviously.

regarding the topic of anime for kids... well, i don't know what's the situation in germany, but i've seen people say that even griffins are for kids or anyway not adults, which kind of boggles my mind, but honestly that explains why howl's moving castle is the only non-merchandised(e.g. pokemon) animated movie rai has shown on tv more than once in the last 15 years, but at least things are sloooooooooowly getting better as time goes on.



now lets keep in mind something though: leaving aside my brother this all experience from comic shops and the web, as i said the situation here in italy is pretty drastic with animation in general, you'dhave a hardtime finding someone to talk spontaneously about animehere outside of the specific places where you'd meet anime fans, so my opinions are shaped from that.


p.s.: this reminds me, we got a month of netflix and i watned to watch something with them, but while i could stilljust plug the laptop in and keep watching natsume, i wanted to make use of that netflix month, so is there something you guys would consider not too otaku there? (considering netflix it though so the choice it's a bit limited... btw, by "too otaku" i men stuff like say, kotoura-san, kill la kill, hellsing(none of us would be able to handle that level of gore), most shonen anime, etc...)
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This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "iota-09" (Dec 6th 2017, 5:06am)


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Wednesday, December 6th 2017, 9:38pm

So I've spent some more time thinking, finding better words for things and rearranging mental constructs.

When I say "I want more romance anime to deal with sexuality" I don't mean "it should go pornographic" in any way shape or form.
What I want to get at is that sensual aspects of a relationship need to be dealt with, not just the emotional "will they or won't they" trope and all the conflicts that brings with it, but also how to deal with the state of "ok, we're together now and we do kinda have the hots for one another, what do we do about this?" ("sensual" here being used to refer to situations and activities that are kinda driven by both parties' mutual desire for physical intimacy)

There is no need what so ever to have (s)explicit imagery, or at least there is no need to take the imagery any farther than what Nazo no Kanojo X did. When dealing with the most delicate of situations, metaphor and allusion are fine or even necessary. It doesn't need to be "how does sex work", after all. Instead I want it to focus on "how do people work in sensual situations", how do they deal with their perceptions, how do they communicate (incl. verbal vs. body language), how do they fail to communicate (the latter half of episode 8 of Nazo no Kanojo X does EXACTLY that!) or misinterpret one another.

There is also no real reason not to have young adult characters instead of highschoolers if there are moral qualms. I got my hands on three volumes of Futari Ecchi in my youth (volumes 2 and 3 as well as one spinoff), wherein the characters were like ten years older than me. This manga is also *way* more explicit than what I want seinen romance anime to do, as it has a much stronger sex-ed focus (it did supplement my sex-ed quite a bit I'd say).

EDIT: Taking another, wider swing at society in this context.

We apparently have a problem with people being asses and failing horribly to communicate in such situations.
Consent is not generally taught by example, because we don't dare being illustrative.
Communication in such situations, its difficulties and how to deal with them, is not taught by example, because we don't dare being illustrative.
We are too afraid of coming across as lewd, unduly eroticising or pandering to the wrong audience for being straight and demonstrative with such topics.

Do love stories usually go about the couple exploring/discovering their sexuality realistically?
Anime generally doesn't mention the topic *at all*. Toradora alluded to the topic in one of the last episodes, and while the scene was a great metaphor (the way I interpret it) it could IMO have dared do more. Clannad might deal with it (especially in After Story), but I haven't watched it yet.
Manga might, I've overall read very little manga.
Books sometimes do, but they're often also not quite frank or too obscure about it. Those are usually also the kind of books more closely associated with female readers rather than male, regardless of how potentially damaging this distinction actually is.

Do ecchi anime usually deal with their topics in a dignified manner, taking all involved characters seriously and respecting consent and communication? Not from what I can tell.

Do I even need to mention how most hentai kind of does the absolute opposite of allowing their characters dignity, consent and successful communication?

I feel that all those problems are not nearly restricted to the large field of anime, but are just as prevalent in western fiction (book, film, tv-series).

I read a short article about boys'/young men's reactions to the whole #MeToo thing in a newspaper's youth magazine earlier and one of the most important, yet tragically sidelined statements was: "If we [as boys] are incapable of answering a simple question like "Are you alright?" earnestly, how could we possibly deal with guilt and shame in an adequate manner?"
Zormau - Battlelog / Battlefield 4

Memorable quotes not taken yet:


Of course, this ignores the non-constant cross-sectional first moment of area across the chest as well as non-constant material properties of the boob; it would be difficult to perform a more detailed analysis (as in, I'd have to have a shape function AND I'd need to derive a function for elastic modulus as a function of lateral breast coordinate) but whatever. It's 2am and I'm lazy.


I always believed science should be very hands on experience.

You should also answer this question I had posed in that thread: Would you be willing to pay your surgeon more if he was going to use a chainsaw for the opening incision of surgery? Clearly using a chainsaw isn't truly suited for surgery but that doesn't really matter. If he's "skilled" enough to be able to use the wrong tools of the trade, he should be rewarded for that skill right?

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "Zormau" (Dec 6th 2017, 10:13pm)


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Wednesday, December 6th 2017, 11:09pm

...which is exactly what happens in turedzure children and the main reason it gained popularity through a short clip of it,i know what you're talking about, rest assured it's what you're looking for.

seriously you wrote a way too long message thinking i misentrepreted, when you could have just watched the first 3 episodes of the anime(they are short, like 10 minutes each) and easily would have understood that i understood, and yeah, i can easily say that's the best part about reading /watching characters dealing with sexuality in anime manga(when it's no tin an ecchi orsimilar for the points you mentiond), it creates an amount of character development that is utterly crazy for how quick it can be and is extremely relatable, either for those who had the experience, or those who don't know how it'll be and wonder about it, it shows that everyone can have insecurities regardless of their role in a relationship or in society as a whole, and let's be honest, it's just straight up realistic, but as you said, it happens pretty much almost never, which is exactly why that clip mentioned(which shows how two characters have troubles with having phisical contact in their relationship, even going to something as simple as kissing for thir characers hardly creates situations for it) got popular.


...but perhaps i DID misunderstand and that's still too light toned? if that's the case, then i'm not sure to have watched anythig that did go just a bit further than tsurezure but never that much more.

btw, i'm not exactly sure what that question means, it's a bit too out of context, "are you alright?" refers to what? what guilt and shame?
"I'm just a loot whore."


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*= 6 if we not count the EOD BOT headshots

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Thursday, December 7th 2017, 12:01am

No worries, I was sure enough you had understood me quite well before, that wasn't the reason I wrote again.

Also now you made me wanna watch tsurezure children (IIRC it even has an English dub), as well as bartender.

I was just not quite happy with the phrasings I had come up before and, though redundant, wanted to specify and be as clear as possible.

As for the context of the quote: The article was written in the wake of "#MeToo" and all the other uproar against sexual misconduct. For a good part it kind of implies that all males do (or maybe should?) feel guilty or ashamed for what they or their sex did. Regardless of whether I agree with that statement or not, what the part I quoted was trying to say is that "men" haven't learned to communicate their feelings, thus sometimes being reluctant to admit that something's not alright, as admitting weakness is "not something men ought to do". (supported by psychology: even with mental health issues that are evenly prevalent in both sexes, males seek help even more rarely than females, among other things leading to a higher rate of "finalized suicides" in men)

I know I sound like a broken record, but it all ties in with popular culture neglecting how we can communicate delicate and emotional topics in delicate situations, especially where men are concerned.


Also, Death Parade is friggin' amazing. Great show, fantastic final episode.
Zormau - Battlelog / Battlefield 4

Memorable quotes not taken yet:


Of course, this ignores the non-constant cross-sectional first moment of area across the chest as well as non-constant material properties of the boob; it would be difficult to perform a more detailed analysis (as in, I'd have to have a shape function AND I'd need to derive a function for elastic modulus as a function of lateral breast coordinate) but whatever. It's 2am and I'm lazy.


I always believed science should be very hands on experience.

You should also answer this question I had posed in that thread: Would you be willing to pay your surgeon more if he was going to use a chainsaw for the opening incision of surgery? Clearly using a chainsaw isn't truly suited for surgery but that doesn't really matter. If he's "skilled" enough to be able to use the wrong tools of the trade, he should be rewarded for that skill right?


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Thursday, December 7th 2017, 12:12am

oh yeah, i mght make her watch that and death not i fthey are on netflix(while my brother made both my parents start steins:gate as they started a tv series that also talks apout time travel)

well.... yeah, you find me thinking the exact same thing there, but that's a topic for another day, i'd say knowing i find what you say right would be enough here to not go ot as that is possibly the extent of how you can relate the topic of how men apparently can't tell others their feelings out being shamed for their(completely made up) non-masculinity, you might want to make another thread in ot for that though, i find it actually very interesting and something too many people, both men and women tend to ignore.
btw i also think it's an even worse problem for those people who might not have had that much socializationearly in life and wuld find evenharder to convey the simplest of emotions and desires(i don't care so i'll make an example with myself, althoug i'm an etreme case, such as how i'm incapable of "embracing for welcome" even most of my family members or how at times i find myself unable to even applaud at a concert... for whatever reason) i feel like for those people, if they don't have a very specific mindset they just find wall after wall regarding difficulty in socialization and motion communication to the point they just close into a shell.
but as i already said, that's ot.
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bf4
on 13/05/2016
23rd M320FB user on pc(13/05/16)
rush mode score RANK:2794 TOP:2% OUT OF:215398
obliteration mode scoreRANK:994 TOP:1% OUT OF:159466
handgun medals RANK:2236 TOP:2% OUT OF:143874
longest headshot RANK:9512 TOP:4% OUT OF:257589
recon score RANK:10871 TOP:4% OUT OF:274899
general score per minute RANK:10016 TOP:4% OUT OF:294774

bf3
31/3/2012 4:58:

Headshot distance RANK:493* TOP:0%
Revives per assault minute RANK: 6019 TOP: 3%
Headshots / kill percentage RANK:25947 TOP:13%
MVP ribbons RANK:18824 TOP:11%

*= 6 if we not count the EOD BOT headshots

@kataklism

ARGUMENT DESTROYED 100

ENEMY KILLED [REASON] JSLICE20 100


WRITING SPREE STOPPED 500

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Thursday, December 7th 2017, 2:31am

So I'm halfway through Tsunedure Children now... So far really a mixed bag for me. It's hard to develop serious characters and dymanics with so little screentime per character. Some bits featured what I was looking for, but the mostly unbroken comedic tone is sometimes frustrating for me. But Akagi's first scene was disgusting and quickly done away with. Austin Tindle does a stellar job voicing him, though. Same goes for J Michael Tatum (obviously, he's one of my absolute favourites), Jad Saxton and Dallas Reid. The VO is very good in general.


Edit

Okay, the first four minutes of ep. 7 (Minagawa's chat with Furuya's little sister) might have given me the biggest laugh I've ever gotten from anime. Comedy gold.
Zormau - Battlelog / Battlefield 4

Memorable quotes not taken yet:


Of course, this ignores the non-constant cross-sectional first moment of area across the chest as well as non-constant material properties of the boob; it would be difficult to perform a more detailed analysis (as in, I'd have to have a shape function AND I'd need to derive a function for elastic modulus as a function of lateral breast coordinate) but whatever. It's 2am and I'm lazy.


I always believed science should be very hands on experience.

You should also answer this question I had posed in that thread: Would you be willing to pay your surgeon more if he was going to use a chainsaw for the opening incision of surgery? Clearly using a chainsaw isn't truly suited for surgery but that doesn't really matter. If he's "skilled" enough to be able to use the wrong tools of the trade, he should be rewarded for that skill right?

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Zormau" (Dec 7th 2017, 2:40am)


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5,250

Thursday, December 7th 2017, 5:19am

well, consider that the original is a 4-koma, so it's even faster, but it is so fast that it feels like everything is happening all at the same time and continuous too, meaning you do get attached to the characters eentually(though admitedly t's hard to do so with every single one of them) whereasthat sometimes esn't hppen in the anime.
"I'm just a loot whore."


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bf4
on 13/05/2016
23rd M320FB user on pc(13/05/16)
rush mode score RANK:2794 TOP:2% OUT OF:215398
obliteration mode scoreRANK:994 TOP:1% OUT OF:159466
handgun medals RANK:2236 TOP:2% OUT OF:143874
longest headshot RANK:9512 TOP:4% OUT OF:257589
recon score RANK:10871 TOP:4% OUT OF:274899
general score per minute RANK:10016 TOP:4% OUT OF:294774

bf3
31/3/2012 4:58:

Headshot distance RANK:493* TOP:0%
Revives per assault minute RANK: 6019 TOP: 3%
Headshots / kill percentage RANK:25947 TOP:13%
MVP ribbons RANK:18824 TOP:11%

*= 6 if we not count the EOD BOT headshots

@kataklism

ARGUMENT DESTROYED 100

ENEMY KILLED [REASON] JSLICE20 100


WRITING SPREE STOPPED 500

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