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Watcher-45

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Friday, December 23rd 2016, 11:59pm

Language. A WTF question.

So I've been watching more and more anime and I notice things about language that kind of irk me. Mainly words that are proper derivatives of a native tongue that shouldn't have a translation being translated.

Example. Katana. A katana is a specific type of sword, so it wouldn't be proper to just call it a sword, but nor is it a cutlass or a falchion or messer or any other number of curved single edged swords. Japanese sword construction is also fundamentally different than Chinese construction so it wouldn't be right to call it a Dao. It is and only is a Katana. Great!

But what about "Ninja"? Every time I hear "Shinobi" spoken it translates to "Ninja". Not assassin, not infiltrator, nor any other English translation. "Ninja" The class of person is apparently too specific to be called an assassin or whatever. So why isn't it just "Shinobi?" What's the entymology of "Ninja"? Who made up the word "Ninja" and why is it an accepted translation of "Shinobi"?

Japan isn't even "Japan". It's "Nihon"...

And it's not just those crazy eastern languages. There's a city in Germany we all should be familiar with called "Munich.". Only it's not "Munich," it's "Munchen".
Germans say "Munchen", it's "Munchen" on German maps, "Munich" isn't even phonetically close to "Munchen" (Moon-chen vs Myoo-nick). So why does "Munich" even exist?
On the topic of Germany, it's not even Germany. It's Deutschland (Doych-land). Germans are Deutschlanders.
Where the hell did the word "German" even come from?

Someone put their foot up on a rock, planted a flag, and proclaimed the land "Germany" and when it was discovered to already be inhabited the explorer simply said "I like my name better" and it stuck with non-german peoples?

Naples is Napoli?

I mean, I can understand Paris as it's a spelling thing. English speakers won't know the S is silent so it's more or less an acceptable ignorance.

But Shinobi/Ninja? Japan/Nihon? Germany/Deutschland? Munchen/Munich? Naples/Napoli?

What the fuck?



On a lighter note I find it funny that many anime featuring magic frequently have spells cast in English. I'd imagine if English speakers wanted to be proper about it they'd have spells cast in Latin or something, or just make up a language like Skyrim. It's odd that Japanese would use English as their version of, like, an ancient powerful language.

It's funny to me to hear: "Watashi wa subete dekakeru nda! Ice make spear!"
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ViperFTW

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Saturday, December 24th 2016, 1:35am

Perception is the most fascinating part of this, I'm sure quite a few people here who speak English as a second language will be like "What, why the fuck is X translated to Y in English? That's so fucking weird!!!", similar to you now. Case and point:



I speak English, and to me this is a Pineapple. To you, Watcher, it'll be a Pineapple. HOWEVER in German it's "Ananas", French it's "Ananas", Italian: "Ananas" again, how about Finnish? "Ananas" again. What about something without Cryllic letters, like Arabic? Symthic doesn't support Arabic letters but it comes out to a word that's pronounced exactly like, yep, "Ananas"!!!
The only similarity, vague as it may be, is in Spanish: "piņa". So basically most of the other people on the planet who try and learn English as a second tongue will get to that and go "Wait...WHY THE FUCK IS IT CALLED 'PINEAPPLE'?!?!?!" :D

Language, accents, speech, communication, all never ever cease to amaze me :)

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Saturday, December 24th 2016, 1:35am

Basque is a mess when it comes to place names too. In a few cases the original name is used (London is London in Basque maps), but other cases that may not sound native to the language just get translated from the Spanish equivalent (France > Francia (SPA)> Frantzia (BAS)).

It happens the other way around where many Basque city names are changed if they don't sound proper in Spanish. Each main city of each Basque province has its own name and it's very different in Spanish; Bilbao > Bilbo, San-Sebastian > Donosti, Vitoria > Gasteiz.

It seems like it comes down if it sound well for the speaker. But honestly I do find these small details amusing.

I guess you could draw a parallel to localisation works where when translating something the original may me modified if it means it'll be better understood by the recipients. For the cases you mentioned of Japan/Nippon, Germany/Deutschland, etc.
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Saturday, December 24th 2016, 3:34am

heck, or corsica, ait you don't know corsica? oh right, you might know it as corse.

like, why.

cors(e silent)
cors-ica

just why?

at least deutschland it's an odd word, hard to pronounce and even more to write, but corse/corsica? heck, the most lame translation of a city name comes from italy too: milano=milan
like what the fuck, did it hurt your(guy who translated) throat to spell that o?!
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Saturday, December 24th 2016, 4:30am

On a lighter note I find it funny that many anime featuring magic frequently have spells cast in English. I'd imagine if English speakers wanted to be proper about it they'd have spells cast in Latin or something, or just make up a language like Skyrim. It's odd that Japanese would use English as their version of, like, an ancient powerful language.

It's funny to me to hear: "Watashi wa subete dekakeru nda! Ice make spear!"


With respect to this, it's partly because Japanese as a lot of English load words. A lot. That means both English words "converted" to Japanese pronunciation (as an example: buriidingyureeniamu) which is the most common, and legitimately pronouncing them English-style.
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Watcher-45

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Saturday, December 24th 2016, 6:54am

Perception is the most fascinating part of this, I'm sure quite a few people here who speak English as a second language will be like "What, why the fuck is X translated to Y in English? That's so fucking weird!!!", similar to you now. Case and point:

I speak English, and to me this is a Pineapple. To you, Watcher, it'll be a Pineapple. HOWEVER in German it's "Ananas", French it's "Ananas", Italian: "Ananas" again, how about Finnish? "Ananas" again. What about something without Cryllic letters, like Arabic? Symthic doesn't support Arabic letters but it comes out to a word that's pronounced exactly like, yep, "Ananas"!!!
The only similarity, vague as it may be, is in Spanish: "piņa". So basically most of the other people on the planet who try and learn English as a second tongue will get to that and go "Wait...WHY THE FUCK IS IT CALLED 'PINEAPPLE'?!?!?!" :D

Language, accents, speech, communication, all never ever cease to amaze me :)


Aside from words that are simply too damn difficult to pronounce in a particular tongue, I think the founding people have all rights to pronunciation.

Good example, the last name Leupold which is well known in the firearms world. Straight from the horse's mouth it's "Loo-pold". Not "Leo-pold" or "Lewp-old" or however else you might think to say it. Bottom line, the guy with that as his name says it correctly.
M1 Garand. Is it "Guh-Rand" as is common? No. According to the family it's pronounced "Gare-and" much like the word "errand".

So who discovered the Pineapple? Was it Filipinos? Do they say "Ananas?" It should be "Ananas" and whoever thought up "Pineapple" should be shot in the face without prejudice.




I'll give you that Deutschland is hard to say for non-German speakers. But at least TRY to get it close! Doochland. Doykland. Dukeland. Something. Germany? Wholly original, and wholly senseless.




It's funny to me to hear: "Watashi wa subete dekakeru nda! Ice make spear!"


With respect to this, it's partly because Japanese as a lot of English load words. A lot. That means both English words "converted" to Japanese pronunciation (as an example: buriidingyureeniamu) which is the most common, and legitimately pronouncing them English-style.


I've heard of "Made in Japan English" but I never thought of how deeply rooted English phonetics might be in modern Japanese. It's quite interesting how they as a people adapt and incorporate other ways of life into their own.
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C0llis

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Saturday, December 24th 2016, 11:16am

RE: Deutschland vs. Germany vs. Tyskland vs. Allemagne

It's a quite interesting subject and it isn't as much the name of the country being translated as it is different countries naming the country/region(s) after different things.

See this wiki page for more: Names of Germany - Wikipedia

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And reading Youtube comments still gives me Turbo Cancer.

It really is quite frustrating when Helen Keller sets up her LMG in the only doorway in/out of an area.

What kind of question is that? Since when is cheese ever a bad idea?

Hardline is a fun and sometimes silly Cops and Robbers sorta thing and I think that's great. Or it would be if it didn't suck.

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Saturday, December 24th 2016, 3:11pm

@Watcher-45

Another good example is words that are simply single words in other languages, but cannot be translated into other languages as a comparative single word doesn't exist. For example: "Backpfeifengesicht" translates to, in English, "A face that cries out for a fist" or "A person who's face is just begging to be punched" :D

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Sunday, December 25th 2016, 3:31am

@Watcher-45

Another good example is words that are simply single words in other languages, but cannot be translated into other languages as a comparative single word doesn't exist. For example: "Backpfeifengesicht" translates to, in English, "A face that cries out for a fist" or "A person who's face is just begging to be punched" :D


Japanese has a lot of these as well, words that can only be translated through meaning because English has no direct equivalents.
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Sunday, December 25th 2016, 4:03am

@Watcher-45

Another good example is words that are simply single words in other languages, but cannot be translated into other languages as a comparative single word doesn't exist. For example: "Backpfeifengesicht" translates to, in English, "A face that cries out for a fist" or "A person who's face is just begging to be punched" :D


Japanese has a lot of these as well, words that can only be translated through meaning because English has no direct equivalents.

like komorebi?
"I'm just a loot whore."


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bf4
on 13/05/2016
23rd M320FB user on pc(13/05/16)
rush mode score RANK:2794 TOP:2% OUT OF:215398
obliteration mode scoreRANK:994 TOP:1% OUT OF:159466
handgun medals RANK:2236 TOP:2% OUT OF:143874
longest headshot RANK:9512 TOP:4% OUT OF:257589
recon score RANK:10871 TOP:4% OUT OF:274899
general score per minute RANK:10016 TOP:4% OUT OF:294774

bf3
31/3/2012 4:58:

Headshot distance RANK:493* TOP:0%
Revives per assault minute RANK: 6019 TOP: 3%
Headshots / kill percentage RANK:25947 TOP:13%
MVP ribbons RANK:18824 TOP:11%

*= 6 if we not count the EOD BOT headshots

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