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11

Thursday, October 22nd 2015, 4:03pm

Paper was handed in on Sept. 17. I didn't want to put it up somewhere else before it was graded and returned to me.

Gotta say I wasn't sure what my lecturer would think of it, but I got full marks for it, despite expecting a 2.0 (or "B" if you will) at best. Those two errors and other questionable linguistic choices, while shameful, didn't impact the grade.

Good job. It was an interesting read, thanks for sharing here.

I would have given an A (or 5/5 here) as well.
"Less is more? How can that be? How could less be more, that's impossible. More is more." Yngwie Malmsten
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Thursday, October 22nd 2015, 4:09pm

tl;dr

i only read page 8 and 9.

it seems interesting though, so good luck to render this (well written? i mean i read only little of it so i dunno) wall of text useful for the community.


also university, but if it didn't go well i doubt you would have posted it.
"I'm just a loot whore."


stuff mostly unrelated to BF4 that interests nobody



bf4
on 13/05/2016
23rd M320FB user on pc(13/05/16)
rush mode score RANK:2794 TOP:2% OUT OF:215398
obliteration mode scoreRANK:994 TOP:1% OUT OF:159466
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longest headshot RANK:9512 TOP:4% OUT OF:257589
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general score per minute RANK:10016 TOP:4% OUT OF:294774

bf3
31/3/2012 4:58:

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Revives per assault minute RANK: 6019 TOP: 3%
Headshots / kill percentage RANK:25947 TOP:13%
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*= 6 if we not count the EOD BOT headshots

@kataklism

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Miffyli

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Thursday, October 22nd 2015, 4:54pm

Tbh I found it more interesting than what I expected (no offence @Zormau). Especially enticing is the fact Symthic community is proven to behave better on these subjects ^^.
I don't have experience writing proper papers yet but this wasn't too heavy to read yet quite formal and full of information. 5/5 would read again.

Quoted

...a stronger focus on vehicle related mechanics and balancing might go a long way.

Welp... I guess we have to do something about that. At least we have the "complete changelog" thing so changes should be easy to see.

One dumb question tho: How does one calculate SD with data like this? I have faint memory of a way but I have been spoiled by numeric data like player KDs etc.

Aaand is it just me or does anybody else "feel" that writer had honest interest in this topic? Don't get me wrong, it's just that quite often you read things that seem hastily put together and/or very forced.
Links to users' thread list who have made analytical/statistical/mathematical/cool posts on Symthic:
  • 3VerstsNorth - Analysis of game mechanics in BF4 (tickrates, effects of tickrate, etc)
  • leptis - Analysis of shotguns, recoil, recoil control and air drag.
  • Veritable - Scoring of BF4/BF1 firearms in terms of usability, firing and other mechanics.
  • Miffyli - Random statistical analysis of BF4 battlereports/players and kill-distances. (list is cluttered with other threads).
Sorry if your name wasn't on the list, I honestly can't recall all names : ( . Nudge me if you want to be included

  • "Zormau" started this thread

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Thursday, October 22nd 2015, 5:28pm

IIRC I mentioned that the current (is it still? I haven't been playing lately) vehicle balance initiative on CTE might change that. :P

SDs were done in Excel with STDEVP(x;y;z) (more details here STDEV function - Office Support), where x was the relative frequency of a word group on symthic, y the rel. freq. of the same group on cte reddit and z the rel. freq. of the same word group on main reddit, thus forming three sub-groups within one population.

Correlations are Pearsons (excel does those as well). My lecturer mentioned that I should have mentioned that last bit.
Zormau - Battlelog / Battlefield 4

Memorable quotes not taken yet:


Of course, this ignores the non-constant cross-sectional first moment of area across the chest as well as non-constant material properties of the boob; it would be difficult to perform a more detailed analysis (as in, I'd have to have a shape function AND I'd need to derive a function for elastic modulus as a function of lateral breast coordinate) but whatever. It's 2am and I'm lazy.


I always believed science should be very hands on experience.

You should also answer this question I had posed in that thread: Would you be willing to pay your surgeon more if he was going to use a chainsaw for the opening incision of surgery? Clearly using a chainsaw isn't truly suited for surgery but that doesn't really matter. If he's "skilled" enough to be able to use the wrong tools of the trade, he should be rewarded for that skill right?


C0llis

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Thursday, October 22nd 2015, 10:26pm

Very interesting read, well done. :)

Thanks for posting it here!

Things people said

And reading Youtube comments still gives me Turbo Cancer.

It really is quite frustrating when Helen Keller sets up her LMG in the only doorway in/out of an area.

What kind of question is that? Since when is cheese ever a bad idea?

Hardline is a fun and sometimes silly Cops and Robbers sorta thing and I think that's great. Or it would be if it didn't suck.

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Thursday, October 22nd 2015, 10:44pm

People should care more about vehicles.
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Friday, October 23rd 2015, 12:01am

People should care more about vehicles.


Weapon stats are easier. The inhibition level is much lower with stats that are straight forward to read.

Vehicles have more different variables to consider and require more work. The inhibition threshold is a lot higher.
still playin' Motorstorm

  • "Zormau" started this thread

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Friday, October 23rd 2015, 12:49am

People should care more about vehicles.


Weapon stats are easier. The inhibition level is much lower with stats that are straight forward to read.

Vehicles have more different variables to consider and require more work. The inhibition threshold is a lot higher.

That's definitely true, but it's also somewhat a matter of prevalence: Not every player gets a vehicle in every life, but every player always gets a gun. Unless he's very unlucky to encounter a bug.
Zormau - Battlelog / Battlefield 4

Memorable quotes not taken yet:


Of course, this ignores the non-constant cross-sectional first moment of area across the chest as well as non-constant material properties of the boob; it would be difficult to perform a more detailed analysis (as in, I'd have to have a shape function AND I'd need to derive a function for elastic modulus as a function of lateral breast coordinate) but whatever. It's 2am and I'm lazy.


I always believed science should be very hands on experience.

You should also answer this question I had posed in that thread: Would you be willing to pay your surgeon more if he was going to use a chainsaw for the opening incision of surgery? Clearly using a chainsaw isn't truly suited for surgery but that doesn't really matter. If he's "skilled" enough to be able to use the wrong tools of the trade, he should be rewarded for that skill right?


C0llis

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19

Friday, October 23rd 2015, 1:36am

Also, discussion here is pretty reaction driven. Most activity is after patches and concerns the changes in those patches.

Vehicles were relatively untouched for a large part of the game's life; there weren't many changes to discuss up until recently, and not particularly many direct and intentional changes to vehicles in the spring patch. I'd wager a fair bit off the "vehicle" discussion on the two subreddits was about how DICE hated air for "nerfing" the AJ and how they hated skilled counters to air by nerfing the SRAW.


That said, I agree that more talk about vehicles would be healthy. It's a hard subject to argue about without having to resort to subjective arguments because vehicle stats are so opaque. Vehicles are also a bit daunting to talk about since the gap between a skilled and an average vehicle player is larger than the gap between a skilled and an average infantry player.

Things people said

And reading Youtube comments still gives me Turbo Cancer.

It really is quite frustrating when Helen Keller sets up her LMG in the only doorway in/out of an area.

What kind of question is that? Since when is cheese ever a bad idea?

Hardline is a fun and sometimes silly Cops and Robbers sorta thing and I think that's great. Or it would be if it didn't suck.

Zer0Cod3x

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Friday, October 23rd 2015, 8:25am

I'd wager a fair bit off the "vehicle" discussion on the two subreddits was about how DICE hated air for "nerfing" the AJ and how they hated skilled counters to air by nerfing the SRAW.

Not just that. The sheer number of MAA threads on CTE reddit is honestly ridiculous.

Oh, and one thing that would help vehicle discussion is up-to-date vehicle stats. I know the reasons behind why they aren't updated, but still, if you want vehicle discussion... ;)
something something Model 8 bestgun


How to ice an A-91

Next, wanna try adding a guy that you KNOW is bad, and just testing to see that? Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

PP-2000 added. Y'know, it's not that bad....

Yes, it comes in last so far, but that is mostly because I'm making it shoot at 100m ADS - Not Moving as one of the criteria. Even then, between 50-100m Not Moving, when you include Useability, it is only 1.37% worse than the MTAR-21. Within 50m then it even beats the A-91.

Have a look, vs. the A-91 Carbine:




Using it with Muzzle Brake and Compensator is a wash in terms of overall performance. Comp is SLIGHTLY more accurate, while MB is SLIGHTLY more easy to use. Their overall scores are basically tied, with MB just ahead. I guess either can be recommended.

But... You can't be counting for the fact that it takes 9 bullets to kill at "long" range... Don't you dare tell me my A-91 is worse than a 9 BTK 650 RPM mediocre PDW.

Also. Just go heavy barrel. The recoil is low enough.

Well, technically...

Comparing a PP2K with HB and an A-91 with comp and stubby (as you suggested in an earlier post), at 50m not moving, the A-91 is only better by 4 damage per hitrate. While at 75m and 100m, surprisingly the PP2K does better than the A-91 (I'm pretty damn surprised as well).

And 10m and 50m moving the PP2K also does more damage per hitrate than the A-91. At 25m the A-91 is only better by about half a bullet's damage as well.

In addition, the PP2K has a much larger mag size and substantially less recoil. And it looks hella awesome. So comparing the A-91 to a PDW is of some worth after all, as the PP2K is better (technically, not practically) than the A-91.

Mind blown.

I... I...

*cries in a corner*

Zer0Cod3x explained it very well. If you look at the raw numbers right here on Symthic Comparison, you can see how that happened:

A-91 vs PP-2000 | BF4 Weapon Comparison | Symthic

A-91's "23%" RPM advantage only afforded it 1 extra round.

Reload times are wash.

Velocities are wash.

V-Recoil are wash (and this is HBar on PP2k vs. A-91 without).

Hipfire and ADS - Moving are better on the PP2k, but it's a PDW and not the surprising part.

The surprising part is that, as equipped (and we see above that PP2k HBar has almost same V-Recoil as A-91 without HBar so why not?), the PDW performs better at 50 - 100m than a bloody Carbine. Why?

H-Recoil Spread, 0.525 vs. 0.45, advantage PP2k.

SIPS, 42% better on the PP2k.

And here is the most important part. ADS - Not Moving Spread, 0.35 vs. 0.2, 43% improvement.

Without HBar then of course the PP2k loses, which is why when I add all the attachments together for an Overall Ranking, it would slot below the A-91. Run HBar on it, though, then... I'm sorry

@Veritable
@Zer0Cod3x
I... I...
But...
Wha...
I AM HAVING AN EXISTENTIAL CRISIS IN SCHOOL BECAUSE OF YOU TWO.

FUCK YOU NERDS AND YOUR FANCY NUMBERS

SEXY RUSSIAN BULLPUPS FTW.

In all seriousness, thank you both so much for giving me the numbers. I still don't want to accept them. You have led the horse to water. I still need to drink.


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