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  • "GurrePurre" started this thread

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Friday, August 12th 2016, 12:06pm

Are Asians more susceptible to motion sickness from FPS games than westerners?

Hi everyone,

This is my first post on the forum, but I wanted to ask if there is any research made when it comes to motion sickness from First & Third Person Shooters, specifically related to Asians being more susceptible to the issue compared to Westerners.

The reason I ask is because I unfortunately suffer from this problem and only recently, with the higher resolution and frame rate, have been able to enjoy games from the FPS genre. However, this is only short lasting, meaning that, after 10-15 minutes I still have to stop with the feeling of having to puke. Back in the mid 90s, I could not even last more than 30 seconds playing games like Doom & Doom2.
Half a day might be ruined if I go too far and not stop when I should.

As you may have guessed, I am Asian, but why would I ask if there is a higher chance of suffering from the problem cause of race? Apparently, many of my Asian male and female friends seem to be affected in the same way (Japanese, Vietnamese, Thai) and I wonder if there is something in our "Asian" bodies that has less tolerance for motion sickness. We sometimes speak about Asians' low tolerance to alcohol as well as milk, so I am curious if there is anything similar with regards to easily getting ill from playing 1st or 3rd person shooters?

I am not sure if the reason for FPS games' lack in popularity in Japan is due to people having issues with motion sickness or if it has to do with guns not being part of Japanese history and culture, and thus not as appreciated as close quarter combat, but I guess that is another discussion.

So if anyone knows of any research available on the topic, please let me know :) I would love to find out if this is a general thing among Asians or just an individual matter.
Do other forum members have Asian friends that suffer from this issue?

Miffyli

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Friday, August 12th 2016, 12:36pm

I tried scholar this up along with some google searches but didn't seem to come up with anything related to this straight away. That's not to say there isn't proper research into this but it needs better digging.

However from what I read on Oculus forums back during DK1/DK2 days it seems to vary a lot between different people, just like some get headaches often and some never have them. It could be just luck your friends also feel motion sickness often, but can't say anything for sure until somebody cites proper study on this ^^.

From my personal experience: Older CRT screens made me feel ill much faster than modern LCD displays, and it even got better when I moved to 144Hz display.
Links to users' thread list who have made analytical/statistical/mathematical/cool posts on Symthic:
  • 3VerstsNorth - Analysis of game mechanics in BF4 (tickrates, effects of tickrate, etc)
  • leptis - Analysis of shotguns, recoil, recoil control and air drag.
  • Veritable - Scoring of BF4/BF1 firearms in terms of usability, firing and other mechanics.
  • Miffyli - Random statistical analysis of BF4 battlereports/players and kill-distances. (list is cluttered with other threads).
Sorry if your name wasn't on the list, I honestly can't recall all names : ( . Nudge me if you want to be included

Zer0Cod3x

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Friday, August 12th 2016, 2:12pm

As someone of full Asian descent, personally, no.

I don't feel sick at all whilst playing video games. The only times I've felt sick whilst playing is at the end of a video game binge (i.e. 4-6 hours straight), but I'm pretty sure a slight headache after that is perfectly normal among all races. Then again, I don't experience motion sickness in any way (AFAIK). I can read whilst in a moving vehicle, and I'm also fine on things like rollercoasters.

I do have quite a few Asian family members that have motion sickness, and I don't have any Caucasian friends who experience motion sickness. However, I'm not exactly sure how my family members react to FPS games.


I could be one of the lucky ones, though. This is also purely from my personal experience; it's probably a lot more accurate if you find some sort of study on this subject.
something something Model 8 bestgun


How to ice an A-91

Next, wanna try adding a guy that you KNOW is bad, and just testing to see that? Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

PP-2000 added. Y'know, it's not that bad....

Yes, it comes in last so far, but that is mostly because I'm making it shoot at 100m ADS - Not Moving as one of the criteria. Even then, between 50-100m Not Moving, when you include Useability, it is only 1.37% worse than the MTAR-21. Within 50m then it even beats the A-91.

Have a look, vs. the A-91 Carbine:




Using it with Muzzle Brake and Compensator is a wash in terms of overall performance. Comp is SLIGHTLY more accurate, while MB is SLIGHTLY more easy to use. Their overall scores are basically tied, with MB just ahead. I guess either can be recommended.

But... You can't be counting for the fact that it takes 9 bullets to kill at "long" range... Don't you dare tell me my A-91 is worse than a 9 BTK 650 RPM mediocre PDW.

Also. Just go heavy barrel. The recoil is low enough.

Well, technically...

Comparing a PP2K with HB and an A-91 with comp and stubby (as you suggested in an earlier post), at 50m not moving, the A-91 is only better by 4 damage per hitrate. While at 75m and 100m, surprisingly the PP2K does better than the A-91 (I'm pretty damn surprised as well).

And 10m and 50m moving the PP2K also does more damage per hitrate than the A-91. At 25m the A-91 is only better by about half a bullet's damage as well.

In addition, the PP2K has a much larger mag size and substantially less recoil. And it looks hella awesome. So comparing the A-91 to a PDW is of some worth after all, as the PP2K is better (technically, not practically) than the A-91.

Mind blown.

I... I...

*cries in a corner*

Zer0Cod3x explained it very well. If you look at the raw numbers right here on Symthic Comparison, you can see how that happened:

A-91 vs PP-2000 | BF4 Weapon Comparison | Symthic

A-91's "23%" RPM advantage only afforded it 1 extra round.

Reload times are wash.

Velocities are wash.

V-Recoil are wash (and this is HBar on PP2k vs. A-91 without).

Hipfire and ADS - Moving are better on the PP2k, but it's a PDW and not the surprising part.

The surprising part is that, as equipped (and we see above that PP2k HBar has almost same V-Recoil as A-91 without HBar so why not?), the PDW performs better at 50 - 100m than a bloody Carbine. Why?

H-Recoil Spread, 0.525 vs. 0.45, advantage PP2k.

SIPS, 42% better on the PP2k.

And here is the most important part. ADS - Not Moving Spread, 0.35 vs. 0.2, 43% improvement.

Without HBar then of course the PP2k loses, which is why when I add all the attachments together for an Overall Ranking, it would slot below the A-91. Run HBar on it, though, then... I'm sorry

@Veritable
@Zer0Cod3x
I... I...
But...
Wha...
I AM HAVING AN EXISTENTIAL CRISIS IN SCHOOL BECAUSE OF YOU TWO.

FUCK YOU NERDS AND YOUR FANCY NUMBERS

SEXY RUSSIAN BULLPUPS FTW.

In all seriousness, thank you both so much for giving me the numbers. I still don't want to accept them. You have led the horse to water. I still need to drink.


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Saturday, August 13th 2016, 5:54pm

I've heard things about how FPSes aren't as popular in Japan because of the population being more susceptible to motion sickness. I never got a source for that, so I wouldn't consider that true research on that subject. It might be because of different upbringing; the fact that FPSes aren't popular in Japan reinforces the motion sickness as they aren't used to having a moving first-person view.

I'm also of Asian descent but live in the US. I used to get really motion sick from FPS games after only an hour of playing. I also got sick (and still do after long play sessions) from games where I have to wander around looking for something. As I played more FPS games, the motion sickness went away, so I think it has something to do with acclimation to the medium. My mistake when I first started playing was focusing excessively on the crosshair (the game I played had a CounterStrike-like crosshair in the middle of the screen). This made the game world sit in my peripheral vision and it would make me dizzy. When I started focusing on what was behind the crosshair rather than the crosshair itself, I got motion-sick much less.

It might also have something to do with the amount of travelling done in a vehicle. Someone who travels a lot by car is more used to seeing motion without feeling motion while someone who walks most of the time would be less used to this and thus be more prone to motion sickness.

  • "GurrePurre" started this thread

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Monday, August 15th 2016, 3:27pm

Sorry for the late response. Was a little busy this weekend but very thankful for all the replies :)

I tried scholar this up along with some google searches but didn't seem to come up with anything related to this straight away. That's not to say there isn't proper research into this but it needs better digging.
Yeah, I tried to do some research ahead of making this thread as well but could not find any substantial. So far I am only going by rumours and personal experience. With regards to your last quote, do you believe that better refresh rate or frame rate in general help games "seem" closer to real life? As I stated in the earlier post, I have become a little bit more comfortable with playing 1st and 3rd person shooters compared to earlier, and that may be due to the better resolution, refresh rate and frame rate.

I do have quite a few Asian family members that have motion sickness, and I don't have any Caucasian friends who experience motion sickness. However, I'm not exactly sure how my family members react to FPS games.
Yeah, its for this reason I became interested in learning more about the issue. I also have no Caucasian friends that seem to suffer but too many Asian friends that do. Forum user, The_D0lph1n, made an interesting point about the perhaps the environment you grow up in might influence the situation. I live in the UK but my friends live all over the world. I have absolutely no problem getting on the craziest of rollercoasters, mostly because my body understands that, what happens around me, is really happening in real life. Not like with FPS, where my brain thinks I'm moving left and right but my body remains still. Articles I've read on the net claim my body thinks it is being poisoned, thus inducing the need to vomit.

I've heard things about how FPSes aren't as popular in Japan because of the population being more susceptible to motion sickness. I never got a source for that, so I wouldn't consider that true research on that subject. It might be because of different upbringing; the fact that FPSes aren't popular in Japan reinforces the motion sickness as they aren't used to having a moving first-person view.
It might also have something to do with the amount of travelling done in a vehicle. Someone who travels a lot by car is more used to seeing motion without feeling motion while someone who walks most of the time would be less used to this and thus be more prone to motion sickness.
Yeah, I understand your point with sitting in a car. The difference is that, while sitting in a vehicle in motion, your body is still "physically" moving, or have I misunderstood? Above, I ask myself if better resolution and frame rate is the reason for being able to enjoy 1st and 3rd person shooters for longer than before, but perhaps it is also because my body is getting more and more used to motion, like you pointed out?
Funny thing you mentioned amount of travelling done in a vehicle. Depending on which State in the US you live in, you may have to go by car every time you want to travel somewhere. In contrast, while in Japan and perhaps other Asian countries, people would more often go by public transport or walk, hehe. Would be exciting to find out of this may be one of the factors involved :)

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Monday, August 15th 2016, 3:35pm

Sounds like a good opportunity to do some research, OP.

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Monday, August 15th 2016, 3:40pm

do you believe that better refresh rate or frame rate in general help games "seem" closer to real life?

Especially higher refresh rate should be closer to "real life" and continuous signal our eye receives. Higher resolution / enough distance to the screen / high pixel density should also make video seem closer to real life (removes the effect of having pixels), but you still have problems with screen producing its own light. I have also noticed that especially in video games the textures/models seem bit out of place in 1440p for some reason, meanwhile in 1080p they seem fine.

Also one more thing about CRTs: As more people are more sensitive to this frequency stuff, some people actually noticed the flickering caused by lower refresh rate CRT. Even if you don't notice this it could make you feel ill after staring it longer.
Links to users' thread list who have made analytical/statistical/mathematical/cool posts on Symthic:
  • 3VerstsNorth - Analysis of game mechanics in BF4 (tickrates, effects of tickrate, etc)
  • leptis - Analysis of shotguns, recoil, recoil control and air drag.
  • Veritable - Scoring of BF4/BF1 firearms in terms of usability, firing and other mechanics.
  • Miffyli - Random statistical analysis of BF4 battlereports/players and kill-distances. (list is cluttered with other threads).
Sorry if your name wasn't on the list, I honestly can't recall all names : ( . Nudge me if you want to be included

  • "GurrePurre" started this thread

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Tuesday, August 16th 2016, 12:44pm

Sounds like a good opportunity to do some research, OP.
Hehe, had I still been at University then maybe there would have been a chance. Since some people seem to have heard about Asians perhaps being more susceptible, I find it strange that nobody has dug into the matter or questioned this further. Perhaps it's just a rumour created by people in a similar position as me?

eSports is huge in Korea, yet I have read that FPS aren't really popular over there. At least you can win money playing games in Korea, so I assume that might be a reason why you still have some strong players. However, in Japan, I still don't think it's legal to win money in tournaments. All fighting game tournaments that I know of officially only give away prizes/goodies to the winners. Most goodies are then later sold for cash. Money for tournament wins happens but is always under the table, thus not official. Maybe, because there is no true monetary gain for playing First Person Shooters in Japan, they are less exposed to those type of games, thus not getting acclimated enough to the camera angle view?

Especially higher refresh rate should be closer to "real life" and continuous signal our eye receives. Higher resolution / enough distance to the screen / high pixel density should also make video seem closer to real life (removes the effect of having pixels), but you still have problems with screen producing its own light. I have also noticed that especially in video games the textures/models seem bit out of place in 1440p for some reason, meanwhile in 1080p they seem fine.
Yeah, but additionally, another problem I have with FPS is the limited field of view. In real life, my side view is so wide that I do not really have to move my head around as swiftly as you do when playing FPS. Those type of games sometimes feel as though you are playing through binoculars :) So in order to see what's around you, you are forced to make drastic head movements, which to me is completely unnatural.
When I play on the Vive I use a homemade sleeping mask to make the field of view wider, almost true to real life. The mask that comes with the Vive makes the view too narrow in my opinion.

Anyway, I will continue to look for reports on Asians and motion sickness with FPS and will post more thereafter. Please still add your opinions with regards to the topic. Highly appreciate it! :)

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Tuesday, September 6th 2016, 12:13pm

Hello,

I have a BA in Psychology with a focus on inequality (racial, gender, sexual, disabilities etc), and I also went through a rigorous GE course concerning critical thinking, science, and the human good. Despite simply having a BA, I am told by my programs that it should be worth a MA...there's just no MA program for it. With my Ethos set, I can tell you this with 100% certainty:

With scientific support, there is no such thing as race. We are all 99.99% genetically similar with the 0.01% left over being a randomized effect on our genetic outcome. HOWEVER, the only gene shown to be different between the "races" is one most often found in Asians: Alcohol Flush Reaction or "Asian Glow". But even with that it only affects a minority of Asians. This is the only known genetic difference between "races".

Therefore, your proneness to motion sickness is definitely not due to your Asian descent. If you have any more questions I can help you! I also have access to EBSCO a database of peer-reviewed scientific articles/studies in almost every school of college.

  • "GurrePurre" started this thread

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Friday, September 16th 2016, 12:50pm

Hey Talent,

Sorry for the late response. Really interesting hearing this. By minority of Asians, do you mean that the Japanese, Koreans and Chinese only make up a small percentage of the whole of Asia, or do you mean that only a small percentage of Japanese, Koreans and Chinese individually experience this syndrom? Is Wikipedia wrong in indicating that a large percentage of men and women from these three countries suffer from "Asian Glow"?
Alcohol flush reaction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I know you cannot trust anything that is written on Wikipedia. I learnt that by watching an episode of Mr. Robot, haha. What is your response to the information shared on Wikipedia?
By the way, I'm envious of you for having access to all these scientific databases. Used to have that for business studies when at Uni. Without access to the database anymore, I am forced to pay for all these magnificant articles that are constantly released :)

Also, what about Asians having a lower tolerance for milk? Is this also entirely made up?