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yugas42

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Friday, March 4th 2016, 6:25am

Time Well Spent: What's your take on Time Investment in Video Games?

Earlier in the week I had a discussion with Viper about what seemed to me like a difference in perception about what is a fair amount of time to spend unlocking a camo. Personally, I feel like 22 minutes is quite reasonable for unlocking a camo through an easter egg. I understand that normally it takes a bit longer than that, but even doubling that time seems fine to me. Viper, on the other hand seemed to think that 22 minutes to get an unlock was somewhat unfair, though I'm not going to try to explain his opinion on it, because I'm not Viper.

This discussion came up for me again today, but I found myself on the other side of the argument. I was discussing what I thought about Black Desert Online with a friend who provided me a 7-day key to try the game, as BDO doesn't have a traditional Trial system. Black Desert Online is a Korean MMO, and I have a history of playing these Eastern developed games, which generally have more grinding involved in them than American (Western) games.

Nowadays we have a pretty good split between members on Symthic who play Battlefield and who play Guild Wars 2. These games are wildly different and no doubt have influenced their players opinions on what amount of time is reasonable to spend on progressing in each respective game. So I want to know your thoughts. What have you found to be an absurd amount of time to spend on something in a game? Do you mind how much time you spend on achieving a goal?

As some context, this is a paste of the block of text I had typed in skype to my friend about different MMO's. MMO Rant - Pastebin.com

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Friday, March 4th 2016, 7:38am

A lot depends on how much I'll use whatever I'm farming for.

Shiny new gun that'll be my favorite item in the game? I'll easily spend 5+ hours unlocking it.

Ugly camo that does nothing but help a "do everything" challenge? Even if it took five minutes, it wouldn't be worth my time.
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Aenonar

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Friday, March 4th 2016, 11:18am

Warthunder, free to play Russian game though now heavily monetized through increasingly stupid methods, among which making the grind for anything worse and worse even if you do pay them.

Unlocking a new high tier tank takes about 100 games or 30 hours with a premium account that doubles the progression speed. A bit better unlocking aircrafts as they pretty much halved the progression speed for tanks claiming there weren't enough of them available yet and thus players would "finish" too fast, even though that's bullshit.

Unlocking camos for a vehicle takes about 200-500 kills or special requirements. With 10 kills per 15 minute game which is like 3 times above average (3 spawns in tank arcade, but not with the same tank but assuming you're doing it on several at once) you're looking at 5-13 hours of gameplay per vehicle, the higher tier the more kills required.


I don't really care for unlocking camos, but unfortunately you can't really do much about having to grind for hour after hour to unlock a new vehicle... I guess it's also reflected in how many players that just quit the game once they come near the higher tiers, the grind is just too much. I've spent about 700 hours in the game thus far and I don't have everything even with a premium account for most of the time as well as several premium vehicles that further double the progression... Progression used to me a lot faster when I started as well as a daily 2x or even 5x login bonus that further helped me progress but which has been removed... So new players would get even less with the same amount of time and effort spent...

Progression speed in Warthunder is just plain absurd and no wonder they can't get more people to play it...

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Friday, March 4th 2016, 12:10pm

Camo is just for looks so it's not that big of a deal. I think it's more annoying to unlock guns in Battlefield (eg BF3 AN-94).
It really depends on the type of content. Grinding keeps people playing as well.
Finishing a big grind also gives you satisfaction. It took me like 500 hours to get 99 slayer in runescape and that was the best feeling I''ve ever had in a videogame.

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Friday, March 4th 2016, 12:14pm

@Aenonar
That's pretty much the reason why I stopped playing WoT ages ago. Unlocking new tanks etc just wasn't fun after certain level (at start it was fun and all because you unlocked the thing you wanted before you interest faded).

A bow with bunch of bit bigger requirements? SIgn me in. I will gladly spend time to unlock that by using weapons I never touched (ARs and LMGs). BFH also had nice Syndicate assigments: They required bit of work but weren't too hard to unlock (minus few oddlings) and you got a shiny token in form of a golden melee weapon from it.
I don't mind longer challenges, as long they don't restrict me to do one thing for next 100h gameplay time. They either need to be short enough or have enough variation for me.
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Friday, March 4th 2016, 12:27pm

Well it kinda depends on what is it about.

Guns and equipment? Totally will grind for that. Camo for gun or soldier? Nah...

Then again in GW2 I did spend 8 months working slowly towards the bladeback piece. Mostly for looks of course, but stats are nice too.

If it is somewhat interesting or usefull I will grind for it as long as it takes.
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ViperFTW

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Friday, March 4th 2016, 4:26pm

I'm afraid your summon didn't work. I know it has to be on a separate line but maybe it doesn't work if there are spaces between the "@" and the name? I dunno :P

I didn't say it was unfair, just utterly pointless. Now don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with Easter Eggs as a general rule of thumb. In this specific instance, however, I have two problems:
  • The first is with how much fucking work you have to put into this to get one stupid camo. You said 22 minutes at a minimum, I've heard upwards of an hour to even two from other sources, and this isn't just in-game stuff but (from videos I've seen) involves locating/recording sounds and playing them backwards, listing pages and pages of numbers for codes, and even learning fucking morse code!
    This isn't exclusive to this, I thought the Phantom Bow unlock Easter Egg was equally as long and arbitrary. The link between these two can be explained by my second problem.
  • WHY. ARE. YOU. MAKING. THIS. SHIT. INSTEAD. OF. FIXING. THE. GAME?!?!?!?!?! Pistols STILL have visual recoil on 3x scopes, the UCAV is totally underpowered and flat-out unusable on anything above 30hz, the AC-130 is still ludicrously overpowered (and jets are now at least able to see the border to overpowered territory without the aid of binoculars!), and EVEN more, and yet they sink probably hours or even days of work into making a labyrinth of crap for a shitty black camo?!?!?!?! Get. Fucked!!!


Now that I've got that out of the way, I can happily return to Nice Viper and talk about the much more interesting topic you raised because of this :D
I think it all comes down to what you are happy to spend time with. I'm a firm believer that "Time spent doing something you live isn't time wasted", so sinking ~500 hours into Fallout 4 is something I'm more than happy to do, hell I still don't regret the hilarious amount of hours I've sunk into Borderlands 2 (1000-2000 hours? Perhaps more?).
A matter of perspective, I feel. I know fine well some people are happy spending over 22 minutes unlocking a camo, so good in 'em as far as I'm concerned! I just wish they'd do something practical with their time…But not Angry Viper is trying to climb back out of the box I keep him in so I'll just leave it there :P

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Friday, March 4th 2016, 4:38pm

Yeah it doesn't work if you put a space after the @.

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Friday, March 4th 2016, 4:47pm

WHY. ARE. YOU. MAKING. THIS. SHIT. INSTEAD. OF. FIXING. THE. GAME?!?!?!?!?! Pistols STILL have visual recoil on 3x scopes, the UCAV is totally underpowered and flat-out unusable on anything above 30hz, the AC-130 is still ludicrously overpowered (and jets are now at least able to see the border to overpowered territory without the aid of binoculars!), and EVEN more, and yet they sink probably hours or even days of work into making a labyrinth of crap for a shitty black camo?!?!?!?! Get. Fucked!!!


probably because the people who are "fixing the game" are different from the people "making this shit".

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Friday, March 4th 2016, 6:20pm

WHY. ARE. YOU. MAKING. THIS. SHIT. INSTEAD. OF. FIXING. THE. GAME?!?!?!?!?! Pistols STILL have visual recoil on 3x scopes, the UCAV is totally underpowered and flat-out unusable on anything above 30hz, the AC-130 is still ludicrously overpowered (and jets are now at least able to see the border to overpowered territory without the aid of binoculars!), and EVEN more, and yet they sink probably hours or even days of work into making a labyrinth of crap for a shitty black camo?!?!?!?! Get. Fucked!!!


probably because the people who are "fixing the game" are different from the people "making this shit".


Huh. Won't lie, that never occurred to me :pinch:
Ok. Rant-asside, I still think it's a daft amount of time, but my ferocious rage has been blunted somewhat :P

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