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  • "Nikkor" started this thread

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: Nov 15th 2016

Platform: PS4

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Sunday, November 27th 2016, 4:25pm

shotgun chart suggestion

I like that we have the damage per pellets but when they are rated by max damage and trying to compare some things become misleading and it would be really nice to see a graph showing max damage certain ranges if all pellets hit.

for example

m97 sweeper has more max damage up to a certain range since it has more pellets but you only see that it has less max damage in simple comparison since per pellet is slightly less.

Miffyli

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Sunday, November 27th 2016, 5:00pm

@Nikkor

I have thought about this and it indeed can be misleading with shotguns when damage is about pellets _and_ damage.
However things get bit quirky: While Symthic BF1 stats are improved from BF4 some technical "limitations" (some core mechanics of site) prevent easily showing different values like that (e.g. true damage per pellet, estimated damage).
Another problem is that max do-able damage can be very misleading. Firstly: the spread of pellets causes damage to drop according to inverse square-law (on average). Second: Due to limited amount of pellets, different shots can have very different damages (and this, yet again, gets more uncertain at longer range).

One could simply just simulate the damages by computing bunch of shots, but then the problem falls back to "how to show stats on site".

I might look into this though. I should get my lazy ass up and continue fixing few things on the site <.<
Links to users' thread list who have made analytical/statistical/mathematical/cool posts on Symthic:
  • 3VerstsNorth - Analysis of game mechanics in BF4 (tickrates, effects of tickrate, etc)
  • leptis - Analysis of shotguns, recoil, recoil control and air drag.
  • Veritable - Scoring of BF4/BF1 firearms in terms of usability, firing and other mechanics.
  • Miffyli - Random statistical analysis of BF4 battlereports/players and kill-distances. (list is cluttered with other threads).
Sorry if your name wasn't on the list, I honestly can't recall all names : ( . Nudge me if you want to be included

  • "Nikkor" started this thread

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: Nov 15th 2016

Platform: PS4

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Sunday, November 27th 2016, 7:04pm

@Nikkor

I have thought about this and it indeed can be misleading with shotguns when damage is about pellets _and_ damage.
However things get bit quirky: While Symthic BF1 stats are improved from BF4 some technical "limitations" (some core mechanics of site) prevent easily showing different values like that (e.g. true damage per pellet, estimated damage).
Another problem is that max do-able damage can be very misleading. Firstly: the spread of pellets causes damage to drop according to inverse square-law (on average). Second: Due to limited amount of pellets, different shots can have very different damages (and this, yet again, gets more uncertain at longer range).

One could simply just simulate the damages by computing bunch of shots, but then the problem falls back to "how to show stats on site".

I might look into this though. I should get my lazy ass up and continue fixing few things on the site <.<



thanks for writing back. All of that makes sense and I think I understand. I think that if you were able to make a graph somehow showing the max potential damage per pellet at given distances it would still be helpful. I hope people understand that countless things can effect the actual damage that happens but it can still be helpful to compare. The back bored and sweeper trench shotguns are very good examples. you'd be able to see the sweeper doing x potential damage out to a certain range and at what point the damage fall off crosses over and the back bored begins to out peform. its a lot of math and visualization I've been trying to do in my head. it also took me about the 5th time looking to notice that the back bored m97 has pellet damage drop off compared to the hunter where the m10 factory does not. I was mad when i discovered this. m97 is being robbed left and right of its rightful glory!

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Sunday, November 27th 2016, 10:19pm


One could simply just simulate the damages by computing bunch of shots, but then the problem falls back to "how to show stats on site".

I might look into this though. I should get my lazy ass up and continue fixing few things on the site <.<



@Nikkor

When the project "Recoil Control" is finished I can repeat the analysis of the shotguns made for BF4 with the BF1 weapons, since the mechanics have not changed (the parameters have changed) and the simulator is ready.

I can do this by thinking about which graph may be more explanatory of the behavior of the shotguns, in a simple way, although there is a certain difficulty in understanding what is an average damage, the confidence interval in which the results can vary or the standard deviation. Perhaps giving the bundle of probability damage curves for each weapon (5% 25%, 50%, 75%, 95%).

Although what the player is interested in is the 100% probability curve of getting DMG> 100, which is another distinct curve, but this doesn't explain that there are other distances where same DMG 100 can be produced with probability lower than 100% (more bundle of curves).

I do not know which one will be more explanatory because many players don't undertand how shotguns work ( I have failed a shot at 2 meters aiming to head...the game is broken!!!!)