Welcome to symthic forums! We would love if you'd register!
You don't have to be expert in bit baking, everyone is more than welcome to join our community.

You are not logged in.

Hey! If this is your first visit on symthic.com, also check out our weapon damage charts.
Currently we have charts for Battlefield 3, Call of Duty: Black Ops 2, Medal of Honor: Warfighter and Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3

  • "Lawgamer411" started this thread

Posts: 1

Date of registration
: Nov 21st 2016

Platform: Xbox One

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 1

  • Send private message

1

Monday, November 21st 2016, 9:25pm

Symthic app ever a possibility?

Would you use a Symthic app?

A total of 11 Votes have been submitted.

36%

Yes, if it's free. (4)

27%

Yes, even if it's not free. (3)

27%

No, especially if it's not free. (3)

9%

No, even if it's free. (1)

I love using Symthic and I've been using it for a while; Ever since I got into BF3 I started using it to understand how to better use my guns and the attachments on them. The problem is that I don't usually have a dedicated device in order to view it; I've played on PC before and i understand that having two windows up at the same time, even if the other window is minimized, can have an impact on the game performance. Other than that, a PC can easily use Symthic because it's on a webpage; PC's often are the best for browsing websites. Using an iPad or and iPhone is beneficial because it's not the same screen as the device you're playing on, but tablet and phones processing power is often slow and using the internet on them can often be a hassle if you're like me and tap things accidentally, or need to quickly get to a certain part of the site. Like stated before, PCs browse websites much easier than tablets and phones, but often times you can't without peering away from the game or spending too much time looking for stuff. The other factor is that many players may know about Symthic but dont play on PC, so they play on console. It's much more tedious to bring over a laptop and browse Symthic looking for stats, and once again tablets and phones are kinda terrible for browsing certain websites.

What I'm trying to say is, do any of you ever think about creating a Symthic app? The data you guys have is often the most accurate, so that's already a boon in the favor of an app version of this site; it would hands down be the best app for stats on everything Battlefield wise. Many more people would probably use Symthic more if they had it in a convenient app form, myself included.

The only problems I see with making an app version of Symthic is that updating it in comparison to the actual website would be tricky; would it be streamlined with the website, updating in realtime to changes made from the actual site? Or would it need an actual app update in order to update the stats? Second, would programming something like this be challenging? I understand that coding and making something like this either takes a lot of time or a lot of money, and often both. I know Apple requires some sort of payment to get your app on the store, so that's already a roadblock, but Android and other devices don't have as much work in order to get your apps on the stores. I also know that coding and turning in into an app could be tricky or just time consuming based on the amount of work an app could take. I understand if it all seems stupid, but it just never made sense why the site for the best stats on Battlefield topics wouldn't have an app, either free or paid. An app that's paid would bring in revenue that the site owners could use in order to keep up the site or just use as straight up profit, so in the end you'd think it would be worth the effort if you're getting money out of it. I know I would use the app, and would definitely pay for some thing like it if it was good, convenient, and held everything that the site has that is needed for a game stats app.

In the end, do you think this is a good idea or a bad idea? Also, sorry if this question has been asked before, especially if it's been asked multiple times.

TL;DR: Why hasn't there been an app made by the team so people can easily bring up stats for the game on their phone or tablet? Good idea or bad idea?

Miffyli

Symthic Developer

(6,857)

Posts: 3,735

Date of registration
: Mar 21st 2013

Platform: PC

Location: __main__, Finland

Reputation modifier: 17

  • Send private message

2

Monday, November 21st 2016, 9:43pm

Disclaimer: All these are either things I know or my personal opinions, and do not represent what Sym, Curse or other guys would think.

Q: Would smooth, mobile optimized app/webpage be beneficial for Symthic?
A: Indeed! The pages purely made based on PC viewing (we were not official/well trained devs back before BF4 launch :v), and all kinds of messy code and whatnot makes it tedious at best to use it on slower devices (not to mention ads and general layout). On top of this, 30-40% of visitors have visited Symthic on mobile devices according to statistics.

Q: Why there isn't / hasn't been Symthic mobile app?
A: For years now I have been the most active dev (although since slightly before BF1 launch we have had bit more guys), and I personally dislike devving on Android and have no idea how to do it on iOS stuff. It would be a ton of work. Sensible solution would be to make mobile optimized webpages, but yet again I personally have no experience in this. I am 90% a backend guy focusing on getting the correct numbers out for viewing.

Q: Will this change at some point? (i.e. will we have mobile app/pages)
A: Quite possibly but can't say when. Apparently somebody has been doing a mobile optimized webpages (layout and functionality) for some time now, but I don't know at what state they are in.

Q: How about a paid app?
A: Eh... If it were up to me I wouldn't do this to avoid problems with DICE/EA and we already have (sometimes intrusive) ads. It would also be just +1 thing to worry about and I dunno if it's worth it. However this is not up to me since Sym and Curse handle this stuff.

Speaking of apps: Apparently there has been at least one android app that used Symthic stats but as far I am aware we have never made a deal with anybody to make an app.

tl;dr: Is mobile app/pages a good idea? Yes. Will we have one at some point? Possibly. Will I personally work on them? Very unlikely. That's most of what I can say at the moment.
Links to users' thread list who have made analytical/statistical/mathematical/cool posts on Symthic:
  • 3VerstsNorth - Analysis of game mechanics in BF4 (tickrates, effects of tickrate, etc)
  • InterimAegis - Weapon comparisons/scoring.
  • leptis - Analysis of shotguns, recoil, recoil control and air drag.
  • Veritable - Scoring of BF4/BF1 firearms in terms of usability, firing and other mechanics.
  • pmax - Statistical analysis of BF4 players/games.
  • Miffyli - Random statistical analysis of BF4 battlereports/players and kill-distances. (list is cluttered with other threads).
Sorry if your name wasn't on the list, I honestly can't recall all names : ( . Nudge me if you want to be included

yugas42

Moderator

(1,387)

Posts: 1,494

Date of registration
: Sep 1st 2012

Platform: PC

Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 14

  • Send private message

3

Monday, November 21st 2016, 10:05pm

As someone who very rarely uses their phone for much other than communication, I've never really thought much about how Symthic performs on a mobile platform. I'm sure it would be really beneficial to some of our users if the website was designed to be mobile-friendly. Although, the service that Symthic provides is related to a game that is played on console or desktop PC, so it's likely that our user base will have access to a regular computer when using our website.

Q: Why there isn't / hasn't been Symthic mobile app?
A: For years now I have been the most active dev (although since slightly before BF1 launch we have had bit more guys), and I personally dislike devving on Android and have no idea how to do it on iOS stuff. It would be a ton of work. Sensible solution would be to make mobile optimized webpages, but yet again I personally have no experience in this. I am 90% a backend guy focusing on getting the correct numbers out for viewing.

Realistically I think hiring someone to do it would be the easiest solution, but financially that isn't an option for Symthic. It would be really cool if there were some resources that Curse provided to us for doing mobile-friendly development, especially considering that Twitch recently acquired Curse, and that Twitch is owned by Amazon. Theoretically there is a lot of assistance that could be available to us if we were an absolutely massive community; the likes of MMO Champion, WoWDB, or LoLNexus (3 of Curse's biggest websites).

In terms of paid vs free. I too feel like the app would be free. Symthic has never been for-profit, and ad-based systems are usually a lot more appealing to users than up-front costs. The Teamspeak 3 app for Android costs around $3 and I had trouble justifying paying for it, even though I use Teamspeak every day. I would have preferred an ad banner in my app.

The best thing I can recommend to you right now is Tapatalk for using our forums, though of course this doesn't include our stat plots or comparisons.

NoctyrneSAGA

PvF 2017 Champion

(10,268)

Posts: 7,275

Date of registration
: Apr 3rd 2012

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 19

  • Send private message

4

Monday, November 21st 2016, 10:20pm

I know some of the people in this community know how to use Java and have experience in mobile development.

Pretty sure if they banded together, something may pop out.
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

"Skill" may indeed be the most magical of words. Chant it well enough and any desire can be yours.

Are you a scrub?

If it flies, it dies™.

Posts: 197

Date of registration
: Jul 18th 2012

Platform: PS3

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 5

  • Send private message

5

Monday, November 21st 2016, 11:11pm

i asked a few years ago about this, what would the cost be, etc. i forgot how much i offered up, I want to say about $100 to start he ball rolling to at least explore the idea. I know it wasn't enough to fully bankroll it, but I thought hopefully it was enough to get the ball rolling.

looking at the poll results it's a little disheartening that people would like one only if it was free! that's pitiful and you should be ashamed. i applaud the guys investing what free time they have to do all this amazing data mining and provide an amazing resource for the community. sadly there are those out there that think everything should be handed to them for free. these are probably the same people that bemoan a developer for charging for DLC. probably kids that throw temper tantrums when their parents make them mow the lawn to buy the game.

hell, i would even pay a subscription fee to have access to the data.

i wish i had enough skills to help with the development, that's why i offered up the money ;-)

Miffyli

Symthic Developer

(6,857)

Posts: 3,735

Date of registration
: Mar 21st 2013

Platform: PC

Location: __main__, Finland

Reputation modifier: 17

  • Send private message

6

Monday, November 21st 2016, 11:12pm

I know some of the people in this community know how to use Java and have experience in mobile development.

Pretty sure if they banded together, something may pop out.

Wish software engineering was that simple. There are some rare occasions where bunch of people join together to code bigger project with great success, but afaik most of the time it is ugh... (especially in software companies with ugh documents and ugh testing and ugh planning and ugh ugh ugh, not my jam).
Links to users' thread list who have made analytical/statistical/mathematical/cool posts on Symthic:
  • 3VerstsNorth - Analysis of game mechanics in BF4 (tickrates, effects of tickrate, etc)
  • InterimAegis - Weapon comparisons/scoring.
  • leptis - Analysis of shotguns, recoil, recoil control and air drag.
  • Veritable - Scoring of BF4/BF1 firearms in terms of usability, firing and other mechanics.
  • pmax - Statistical analysis of BF4 players/games.
  • Miffyli - Random statistical analysis of BF4 battlereports/players and kill-distances. (list is cluttered with other threads).
Sorry if your name wasn't on the list, I honestly can't recall all names : ( . Nudge me if you want to be included

NoctyrneSAGA

PvF 2017 Champion

(10,268)

Posts: 7,275

Date of registration
: Apr 3rd 2012

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 19

  • Send private message

7

Monday, November 21st 2016, 11:18pm

looking at the poll results it's a little disheartening that people would like one only if it was free! that's pitiful and you should be ashamed. i applaud the guys investing what free time they have to do all this amazing data mining and provide an amazing resource for the community. sadly there are those out there that think everything should be handed to them for free. these are probably the same people that bemoan a developer for charging for DLC. probably kids that throw temper tantrums when their parents make them mow the lawn to buy the game.


Unfortunately, this data is not something Symthic should be profitting off of.

It's not like this website owns the data used in the game.

Rather, EA is kind enough to let this website display the data in the first place.

Other companies expressly forbid this.
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

"Skill" may indeed be the most magical of words. Chant it well enough and any desire can be yours.

Are you a scrub?

If it flies, it dies™.

Miffyli

Symthic Developer

(6,857)

Posts: 3,735

Date of registration
: Mar 21st 2013

Platform: PC

Location: __main__, Finland

Reputation modifier: 17

  • Send private message

8

Monday, November 21st 2016, 11:35pm

looking at the poll results it's a little disheartening that people would like one only if it was free! that's pitiful and you should be ashamed. i applaud the guys investing what free time they have to do all this amazing data mining and provide an amazing resource for the community. sadly there are those out there that think everything should be handed to them for free. these are probably the same people that bemoan a developer for charging for DLC. probably kids that throw temper tantrums when their parents make them mow the lawn to buy the game.


Unfortunately, this data is not something Symthic should be profitting off of.

It's not like this website owns the data used in the game.

Rather, EA is kind enough to let this website display the data in the first place.

Other companies expressly forbid this.

Precisely. People should realize this. On top of this having payment systems and whatnot makes things 100x more difficult and serious, meanwhile I just want to widdle around with text and scripts and share results with others :(. I much rather did this as free-time thing fueled by kind feedback and enthusiasm than as a part/full-time job to make my living.

And indeed DICE (EA?) is quite kind about this. I guess pages like Symthic and BF#stats and whatnot help keeping the community together so they don't mind it.
Links to users' thread list who have made analytical/statistical/mathematical/cool posts on Symthic:
  • 3VerstsNorth - Analysis of game mechanics in BF4 (tickrates, effects of tickrate, etc)
  • InterimAegis - Weapon comparisons/scoring.
  • leptis - Analysis of shotguns, recoil, recoil control and air drag.
  • Veritable - Scoring of BF4/BF1 firearms in terms of usability, firing and other mechanics.
  • pmax - Statistical analysis of BF4 players/games.
  • Miffyli - Random statistical analysis of BF4 battlereports/players and kill-distances. (list is cluttered with other threads).
Sorry if your name wasn't on the list, I honestly can't recall all names : ( . Nudge me if you want to be included

Zer0Cod3x

Can't get a title

(1,327)

Posts: 1,531

Date of registration
: Dec 23rd 2013

Platform: Xbox One

Location: The Land of Multitudinous Kangaroos

Reputation modifier: 13

  • Send private message

9

Tuesday, November 22nd 2016, 1:25am

As someone who very rarely uses their phone for much other than communication, I've never really thought much about how Symthic performs on a mobile platform. I'm sure it would be really beneficial to some of our users if the website was designed to be mobile-friendly. Although, the service that Symthic provides is related to a game that is played on console or desktop PC, so it's likely that our user base will have access to a regular computer when using our website.

Symthic Forum performs absolutely fine on mobile when opened in a browser. Tapatalk has a few formatting issues but is otherwise fine as well.

The stats pages suffer from the same optimisation problems as the desktop site, and is a little clunky with dropdown menus and the like.
something something Model 8 bestgun


How to ice an A-91

Next, wanna try adding a guy that you KNOW is bad, and just testing to see that? Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

PP-2000 added. Y'know, it's not that bad....

Yes, it comes in last so far, but that is mostly because I'm making it shoot at 100m ADS - Not Moving as one of the criteria. Even then, between 50-100m Not Moving, when you include Useability, it is only 1.37% worse than the MTAR-21. Within 50m then it even beats the A-91.

Have a look, vs. the A-91 Carbine:




Using it with Muzzle Brake and Compensator is a wash in terms of overall performance. Comp is SLIGHTLY more accurate, while MB is SLIGHTLY more easy to use. Their overall scores are basically tied, with MB just ahead. I guess either can be recommended.

But... You can't be counting for the fact that it takes 9 bullets to kill at "long" range... Don't you dare tell me my A-91 is worse than a 9 BTK 650 RPM mediocre PDW.

Also. Just go heavy barrel. The recoil is low enough.

Well, technically...

Comparing a PP2K with HB and an A-91 with comp and stubby (as you suggested in an earlier post), at 50m not moving, the A-91 is only better by 4 damage per hitrate. While at 75m and 100m, surprisingly the PP2K does better than the A-91 (I'm pretty damn surprised as well).

And 10m and 50m moving the PP2K also does more damage per hitrate than the A-91. At 25m the A-91 is only better by about half a bullet's damage as well.

In addition, the PP2K has a much larger mag size and substantially less recoil. And it looks hella awesome. So comparing the A-91 to a PDW is of some worth after all, as the PP2K is better (technically, not practically) than the A-91.

Mind blown.

I... I...

*cries in a corner*

Zer0Cod3x explained it very well. If you look at the raw numbers right here on Symthic Comparison, you can see how that happened:

A-91 vs PP-2000 | BF4 Weapon Comparison | Symthic

A-91's "23%" RPM advantage only afforded it 1 extra round.

Reload times are wash.

Velocities are wash.

V-Recoil are wash (and this is HBar on PP2k vs. A-91 without).

Hipfire and ADS - Moving are better on the PP2k, but it's a PDW and not the surprising part.

The surprising part is that, as equipped (and we see above that PP2k HBar has almost same V-Recoil as A-91 without HBar so why not?), the PDW performs better at 50 - 100m than a bloody Carbine. Why?

H-Recoil Spread, 0.525 vs. 0.45, advantage PP2k.

SIPS, 42% better on the PP2k.

And here is the most important part. ADS - Not Moving Spread, 0.35 vs. 0.2, 43% improvement.

Without HBar then of course the PP2k loses, which is why when I add all the attachments together for an Overall Ranking, it would slot below the A-91. Run HBar on it, though, then... I'm sorry

@Veritable
@Zer0Cod3x
I... I...
But...
Wha...
I AM HAVING AN EXISTENTIAL CRISIS IN SCHOOL BECAUSE OF YOU TWO.

FUCK YOU NERDS AND YOUR FANCY NUMBERS

SEXY RUSSIAN BULLPUPS FTW.

In all seriousness, thank you both so much for giving me the numbers. I still don't want to accept them. You have led the horse to water. I still need to drink.