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1

Thursday, February 18th 2016, 2:18pm

BF4 Multi-comparison - longer distance needed on the damage graph.

I was comparing 5 sniper rifles to see how their damage drops with distance, and i noticed the damage graph only shows to about 90 meters of distance.
For regular guns that may be enough but for snipers 90 meters is very short range, and some of the differences between snipers can't be seen in that small distance.

For example CS5's damage stops dropping at 100 meters (59 damage), while FY-JS's damage stops dropping at 147.5 meters (36.6 damage).
Such a big difference is not at all visible on the graph, due to it showing only up to 90 meters.
Image for reference: http://i.imgur.com/WlvLTol.png

Is there currently any way to increase the distance shown in the Damage Graph, at least to 150 meters?
If not, please consider adding this feature - it would be very useful in reliably comparing sniper rifles and other long range weapons.

Miffyli

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2

Thursday, February 18th 2016, 2:48pm

Valid point there, especially when snipers can share very different damage models like that.

Hoooowever the system wasn't built on having dynamic range on those graphs so modifying that would be quite a bit work and probably breaks thing or two on site before we get it right. Increasing the distance would make rest of the weapons look weird with 80% of straight line.
So unfortunately you have to survive by looking at the numbers directly or using the small DoM images on charts (they have dynamic ranges).

(Also for bit out-of-context defence: Clear majority of kills happen at under 100m, and comparing these against WIP engagement distance ranges one could suggest that engagements at over 40m rarely result to successful kills, thus making longer distances less important than closer distances)
Links to users' thread list who have made analytical/statistical/mathematical/cool posts on Symthic:
  • 3VerstsNorth - Analysis of game mechanics in BF4 (tickrates, effects of tickrate, etc)
  • leptis - Analysis of shotguns, recoil, recoil control and air drag.
  • Veritable - Scoring of BF4/BF1 firearms in terms of usability, firing and other mechanics.
  • Miffyli - Random statistical analysis of BF4 battlereports/players and kill-distances. (list is cluttered with other threads).
Sorry if your name wasn't on the list, I honestly can't recall all names : ( . Nudge me if you want to be included

3

Thursday, February 18th 2016, 2:55pm

Thank you for replying :)

Could it be done to have a completely separate "long range damage graph" (up to 150m) tab that users could click on, just like they currently click on the regular damage graph tab in the multi-comparison?

I understand it is a niche use, but perhaps completely separating the two graphs might make it easy to implement?

Miffyli

Symthic Developer

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: Mar 21st 2013

Platform: PC

Location: __main__, Finland

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4

Thursday, February 18th 2016, 3:03pm

That would make it bit easier to implement, but it would still require making bunch of changes to "core" files which are shared among all of the games. We weren't too good at planning out the system when we made this ~3 years ago which now punishes us with things like this, but hopefully we have learned something from our mistakes :D

Maybe for Symthic v5 I will write more dynamic views for DoMs and whatnot. I am planning on doing that during summer and do the backend from scratch again (based on current one so outlook is the same).
Links to users' thread list who have made analytical/statistical/mathematical/cool posts on Symthic:
  • 3VerstsNorth - Analysis of game mechanics in BF4 (tickrates, effects of tickrate, etc)
  • leptis - Analysis of shotguns, recoil, recoil control and air drag.
  • Veritable - Scoring of BF4/BF1 firearms in terms of usability, firing and other mechanics.
  • Miffyli - Random statistical analysis of BF4 battlereports/players and kill-distances. (list is cluttered with other threads).
Sorry if your name wasn't on the list, I honestly can't recall all names : ( . Nudge me if you want to be included

Posts: 282

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: Mar 17th 2015

Platform: PC

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5

Thursday, February 18th 2016, 8:11pm


I was comparing 5 sniper rifles to see how their damage drops with distance, and i noticed the damage graph only shows to about 90 meters of distance.
For regular guns that may be enough but for snipers 90 meters is very short range, and some of the differences between snipers can't be seen in that small distance.

For example CS5's damage stops dropping at 100 meters (59 damage), while FY-JS's damage stops dropping at 147.5 meters (36.6 damage).
Such a big difference is not at all visible on the graph, due to it showing only up to 90 meters.
Image for reference: http://i.imgur.com/WlvLTol.png

Is there currently any way to increase the distance shown in the Damage Graph, at least to 150 meters?
If not, please consider adding this feature - it would be very useful in reliably comparing sniper rifles and other long range weapons.



Perhaps these graphics will be useful. Actually there are only five classes of DMG-drop (beside pickups).

Spoiler Spoiler



Spoiler Spoiler



if you need it numerically...

Spoiler Spoiler

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "leptis" (Feb 18th 2016, 8:24pm)


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: Dec 26th 2015

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6

Friday, February 19th 2016, 1:03am

One of the big things to remember, is that when using the FY-JS or the Scout Elite at their max ranges and beyond, they will not kill with a headshot.
Max range for a 1 hit kill headshot with the FY-JS = 135m
Max range for a 1 hit kill headshot with the Scout Elite = 100m

If you want exact numbers at specific distances feel free to use this quick spreadsheet on google docs:
BF4 Damage at range
You can select the weapon from each category, then the range at which you would be engaging an enemy.
I love the math behind the statistics
It's possible to find me online at almost any given time, due to the fact that my schedule is hectic and rather non-existent.

Who needs sleep anyways?
(PC/PS4 gamer)

Various bf4 spreadsheets: (nothing special, just raw data from the Symthic website put into a spreadsheet to analyze all values at once)

Spoiler Spoiler


General Weapon spreadsheet:
BF4_Weapons_enhanced_UPDATED_2016
Soldier Equipment:
BF4_Gadget_Damage
Interactive Damage Table
bf4_dmg_at_range - Google Sheets
Unsuppressed Sniper Rifle Bullet Drop Charts
bf4_sniper_guide
Suppressed Sniper Rifle Bullet Drop Charts
Suppressed bf4_sniper_guide
More user friendly Unsuppressed Sniper Rifle Bullet Drop Chart
Friendlier Sniper rifle Bullet Drop Chart
More user friendly Suppressed Sniper Rifle Bullet Drop Chart
Friendlier Suppressed Sniper Rifle Bullet Drop Chart

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: Mar 17th 2015

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7

Friday, February 19th 2016, 11:31am

@lope_s_dope

Incidentally, if you want to avoid long strings in your spreadsheets like

If (...; if (....; if(....;if(...)))))

to give a value depending on a previous choice in a drop-down menu value, and if you use EXCEL, a safer function that avoid mistakes is

HLOOKUP (lookup_value, table_array, row_index_num, range_lookup)

Or VLOOKUP for column choices.

I think that in other spreadsheets there will be equivalent functions.

If the values change you have only to change them in the table_array without having to edit the cell.

To place correctly the parentheses is a hell!!! :)