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: Dec 5th 2018

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61

Wednesday, December 5th 2018, 7:36am

Thank you guys. I am new here and I really like BF5. But who can tell me what's the meaning of "mag"?

VincentNZ

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62

Wednesday, December 5th 2018, 11:10am

Miscellaneous
•Improved sustained fire accuracy of SMGs while aimed and stationary.
•Decreased sustained fire accuracy of assault rifles while aimed and moving.

So I read this as a buff/nerf to SIPS while stationary/moving. No just a base spread adjustment. Correct?

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63

Wednesday, December 5th 2018, 3:18pm

Seems so, Vincent.
What worries me is the massive cqc damage buff to the ARs. From 5btk to 4.
Zormau - Battlelog / Battlefield 4

Memorable quotes not taken yet:


Of course, this ignores the non-constant cross-sectional first moment of area across the chest as well as non-constant material properties of the boob; it would be difficult to perform a more detailed analysis (as in, I'd have to have a shape function AND I'd need to derive a function for elastic modulus as a function of lateral breast coordinate) but whatever. It's 2am and I'm lazy.


I always believed science should be very hands on experience.

You should also answer this question I had posed in that thread: Would you be willing to pay your surgeon more if he was going to use a chainsaw for the opening incision of surgery? Clearly using a chainsaw isn't truly suited for surgery but that doesn't really matter. If he's "skilled" enough to be able to use the wrong tools of the trade, he should be rewarded for that skill right?


VincentNZ

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64

Wednesday, December 5th 2018, 3:34pm

Yeah from an SMG's standpoint. General balance-wise I would say it is validated, because of the LMG dominance. I see no reason why the full-auto weapons should not all kill in the same amount of bullets. SMG's will suffer because of their generally low ROF and their hipfire advantage being irrelevant especially when you go below 5m, limiting their niche to 5-10m, maybe.

The AR nerf post-beta was, not needed, when you take into account how the LMGs stand right now.

Miffyli

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65

Wednesday, December 5th 2018, 5:16pm

Thank you guys. I am new here and I really like BF5. But who can tell me what's the meaning of "mag"?

"Magazine" or "Magnitude", depending on the context.
Links to users' thread list who have made analytical/statistical/mathematical/cool posts on Symthic:
  • 3VerstsNorth - Analysis of game mechanics in BF4 (tickrates, effects of tickrate, etc)
  • InterimAegis - Weapon comparisons/scoring.
  • leptis - Analysis of shotguns, recoil, recoil control and air drag.
  • Veritable - Scoring of BF4/BF1 firearms in terms of usability, firing and other mechanics.
  • pmax - Statistical analysis of BF4 players/games.
  • Miffyli - Random statistical analysis of BF4 battlereports/players and kill-distances. (list is cluttered with other threads).
Sorry if your name wasn't on the list, I honestly can't recall all names : ( . Nudge me if you want to be included

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66

Wednesday, December 5th 2018, 6:22pm

Miscellaneous
•Improved sustained fire accuracy of SMGs while aimed and stationary.
•Decreased sustained fire accuracy of assault rifles while aimed and moving.

So I read this as a buff/nerf to SIPS while stationary/moving. No just a base spread adjustment. Correct?


Whatever they exactly did, it is noticeable, even if not quite enough to compete with ARs. I STEMP40-ed through a few domination rounds and found I was able to place my shots the way you would play an StG. The bullet velocity buff makes tracking moving targets significantly better. I would say Medic is now quite a valid choice everywhere except Hamada, since it still is basically missing the ability to defend itself outside of 50 m. I am guessing both a base spread and SIPS buff, since my first bullet feels more accurate and accurate burst fire is now possible from much further away. A new data dump will tell the full story, though.

I should also say I fully support the AR buff to 4BTK within 10 m, but I think SMGs should get a 3BTK inside that range (7 m?), or have their 4BTK range extended (much like @NoctyrneSAGA suggested earlier). Even a 5 m increase to all the BTK cutoffs (which would be 4-->5 at 15 m and 5-->6 at 35 m) would basically fix my complaints at this point. MP40 and MP34 still tops IMO, but the STEN HRec double buff (base + specialization buff) make it a serious contender (we need to see how much the HRec specialization was changed, since we don't have hard numbers there).

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Wednesday, December 5th 2018, 7:10pm



I should also say I fully support the AR buff to 4BTK within 10 m, but I think SMGs should get a 3BTK inside that range (7 m?), or have their 4BTK range extended (much like @NoctyrneSAGA suggested earlier). Even a 5 m increase to all the BTK cutoffs (which would be 4-->5 at 15 m and 5-->6 at 35 m) would basically fix my complaints at this point. MP40 and MP34 still tops IMO, but the STEN HRec double buff (base + specialization buff) make it a serious contender (we need to see how much the HRec specialization was changed, since we don't have hard numbers there).

I don't think giving SMGs a 3BTK is a good idea. At least with the current apparent networking an TTD issues, the game is extremely melty as it is.
As an aside, I think a major culprit is the 2x headshot multiplier, which will also remain an issue when extending 25-dmg-ranges. If damages started at, say, 30 universally for SMGs (at least), dropping to 25 starting at 8 and ending at 20m before decreasing further as before, but the headshot multiplier was reduced so that it wouldn't be a 2HSK in the entire 4BTK range, it would be more reasonable IMO.
Zormau - Battlelog / Battlefield 4

Memorable quotes not taken yet:


Of course, this ignores the non-constant cross-sectional first moment of area across the chest as well as non-constant material properties of the boob; it would be difficult to perform a more detailed analysis (as in, I'd have to have a shape function AND I'd need to derive a function for elastic modulus as a function of lateral breast coordinate) but whatever. It's 2am and I'm lazy.


I always believed science should be very hands on experience.

You should also answer this question I had posed in that thread: Would you be willing to pay your surgeon more if he was going to use a chainsaw for the opening incision of surgery? Clearly using a chainsaw isn't truly suited for surgery but that doesn't really matter. If he's "skilled" enough to be able to use the wrong tools of the trade, he should be rewarded for that skill right?


VincentNZ

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68

Wednesday, December 5th 2018, 8:59pm

You definitely feel the hurt up close with the ARs now. I've died fast to them before, but weapons like the 1-5 and M1907 are really beasts now with their high ROF. What little niche SMGs had when hipfiring, that is gone at point blank ranges, at least for everything below 700 RPM. It is the same with the FG42 and the KE7 you turn a corner and just burst instantly.

Giving SMGs a 3Hk is not the best idea, I agree with Zormau here, you die super fast already, and the ROF differences are way too high to balance that out, even within the SMG class. Extending the 4hk to further ranges would be sensible, as long as you do not extend it further than other weapon classes.

I do not think the patch helped much in terms of general balance. Yes you can hit moving targets better and when stationary you can get more shots on target at longer ranges. But does that really help? You can kill unsuspecting targets faster. But standing still beyond 30m while in an engagement, that is where you get fucked most of the time, and where all other weapon classes shine. And as said, up close it is a free for all, where higher RPMs and reaction matter more than actual stats.+

In the end it is a RPM issue, if all of them fired at 600+ per minute the problems would be much better.

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69

Wednesday, December 5th 2018, 9:15pm

I do not think the patch helped much in terms of general balance. Yes you can hit moving targets better and when stationary you can get more shots on target at longer ranges. But does that really help? You can kill unsuspecting targets faster. But standing still beyond 30m while in an engagement, that is where you get fucked most of the time, and where all other weapon classes shine. And as said, up close it is a free for all, where higher RPMs and reaction matter more than actual stats.+


This is the part that is important. This update has made a skillful player competitive with Medic class due to decreased spread, improved velocity, and better range. I am not saying it's well-balanced, but certainly a thoughtful player who picks good routes and avoids straight-up toe-to-toe engagements now can be quite deadly. I still think they need a buff for sure, though.

Also, from Florian in the Overture AM(A)A:
Other weapon classes are likely to come to Medic soon
There will be improvements to scope glint

This post has been edited 5 times, last edit by "InterimAegis" (Dec 5th 2018, 9:26pm)


rainkloud

jet proximity scan <3

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70

Wednesday, December 5th 2018, 9:55pm

Much like with Open Beta stats, these are in very crude format and there are probably some weapons missing. I decided to share these ASAP to give the hungriest value guys something to chew on while I try to iron out the values.


Are there any plans to have a file dump with all the relevant raw files like you had on this now defunct link: http://bf4data.jjj.fi/#$

That way we could begin to get some data on vehicle weapons/upgrades/mechanics and so on.


Check InterimAegis's signature. Something might be being uploaded there as I write this ^^.

As for the status of the stats: Now we have upgrade structures and whatnot, but still tweaking around how to present the stats, given that it is unlike attachments we had in BF4/BFH.

(Offtopic: I am glad to see senseis pmax and InterimAegis around once again ^^ )


Thanks for that, that was precisely what I needed! Already a lot of insight gained on vehicles from that data.

However, I was hoping that practice range would allow for testing of vehicle weapons but as it turns out it is super limited, dare I say worthless to my objectives. So that leaves material modifiers as the only plausible means of converting the raw vehicle numbers into something meaningful. Historically those have not been included in the game files and unless I've missed something they're not in the BFV files either. Assuming I haven't missed anything do you have a way of obtaining and sharing the material modifiers for vehicle weapons?