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51

Tuesday, December 4th 2018, 6:45pm

If you really scour these data, you will find that the MP34 with a fire rate and bullet velocity spec looks an awful lot like a mini STG44 with an inferior damage model, worse recoil, and a smaller mag (obviously you have to forgo the larger mag and improved HRec to spec it like this). Here, I will assume all right side upgrades for the STG and a mixed tree for the MP34 and as much info about the incoming patch as I know to be true. You end up with:

Weapon: STG44 vs MP34
RoF: 599 vs 599 RPM
Bullet velocity: 620 vs 560 m/s (buffed from 520 m/s)
Spread: 0.025 vs 0.05 (I expect this to be equal post-patch, but I don't have hard numbers)
HRec: 0.16 vs 0.20
Mag: 31 vs 20
5HK spot: 50 vs 30 m (buffed from 25 m)

I assume when SMGs receive a spread buff and ARs receive a spread nerf, they will be even closer together. Specifically, Florian said that SMGs will received improved spread while aimed and stationary. ARs will received a nerf to spread while aimed and moving. My assumption is the base spread for SMGs will be buffed to be equivalent to that of ARs.To be fair, we don't know the exact magnitude of said buff.

If you still prefer your MP34 as a slower laser, you can reduce the HRec to 0.1 (HALF!) and increase the mag to 32 while adding about 50 ms to your TTK. In short, I think the MP34 is simply the best SMG in the medic class if you are not a hip-firer. You can play it like an AR with a mixed tree, and you can play it like a better STEMP40 with improved HRec, bullet drop, and bullet velocity. Literally the only thing it doesn't do better than any other SMG is the Tommy/Suomi large-mag hipfire dance. MP28 feels left out here, since it does nothing particularly well.

Now that I am nearing the end of my post, I suppose I can say that I think even after this patch SMGs will need a buff or at least a little rework. When your best (and most versatile) weapon is a gimped version of another class' middle-tier weapon, there is probably way too much similarity between your class weapons in the design space (see the STEMP40). I complained about this during one of the AM(A)As, but I never really got a response. Hopefully, new weapons, balancing, or ideas can improve things a bit.

Finally:
(Offtopic: I am glad to see senseis pmax and InterimAegis around once again )

Thanks for the kind words, but also, thanks to all of you for making this a place worth visiting. I suspect Symthic will play a very important role in keeping our BF community alive and healthy in the weeks, months, and years to come.

This post has been edited 10 times, last edit by "InterimAegis" (Dec 4th 2018, 11:52pm)


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Tuesday, December 4th 2018, 11:55pm

This might be a dumb question but I haven't been able to find the answer. When the devs said they had removed "random bullet deviation" from the game, at the time I assumed that meant they had removed spread entirely. I see now that wasn't the case. So what did they mean by that?

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Tuesday, December 4th 2018, 11:58pm

This might be a dumb question but I haven't been able to find the answer. When the devs said they had removed "random bullet deviation" from the game, at the time I assumed that meant they had removed spread entirely. I see now that wasn't the case. So what did they mean by that?


Before, you would take the recoil value (where your sight is pointing), make a cone with the spread value, and then the bullet could go anywhere in that cone. It could make you miss even if you were aiming at an enemy.

Now, spread isn't a random deviation from your crosshair. Instead, (effectively) it is calculated simultaneously with your recoil so that your aim location is your recoil+spread, and your bullet always goes exactly where you aim (but there is still a random deviation tacked on to a predictable recoil).

NoctyrneSAGA

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Wednesday, December 5th 2018, 12:20am

Extending the 4 BTK to at least 15m for all weapons will be a very strong buff for SMGs.

Their hipfire is capable of good lethality out to 20m, even 25m. The other weapons lose hipfire relevance as soon as 11m.

A longer 4 BTK benefits SMGs more than any other weapon type. While everyone else is busy ADSing, SMGs can just hipfire.
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Wednesday, December 5th 2018, 12:25am

Extending the 4 BTK to at least 15m for all weapons will be a very strong buff for SMGs.


That would be a great change, but that's not what we're getting. See: Florian

4HK to 10 m like every other automatic. 5HK range is being extended from 25 m to 30 m.

This is all unless you have more recent information.

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Wednesday, December 5th 2018, 12:36am

Extending the 4 BTK to at least 15m for all weapons will be a very strong buff for SMGs.


That would be a great change, but that's not what we're getting. See: Florian

4HK to 10 m like every other automatic. 5HK range is being extended from 25 m to 30 m.

This is all unless you have more recent information.


I'm just saying 10m isn't enough. That's still well within the hipfire capabilities of most of the weapons if they spec for it and still short of the Alpha's 12m 4 BTK.

A 1m buff to 4 BTK distance is barely going to be felt. 15m+ is what should happen.
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Wednesday, December 5th 2018, 12:47am

Nice summary about the SMGs, but I interpreted from the patchnotes that the base spread remains largely untouched, while the spread increase while standing gets reduced, which would make more sense with the low recoil values and high spread of the low ROF SMGs, as they are the ones that need a buff the most.
Another SMG problem is the hipfre, Spread still accumulates fast, and at hipfire relevant ranges even a big advantage there can be countered by reaction, movement and a enforced point blank range. I mean at ranges from 0-6m, which the game often forces you into, the TTK can be very short for all weapons, and just losing the target for a splitsecond can decide the encounter, diminishing any hipfire bonus. That is no real issue for Suomi and the Thompson, but the Sten and similar really suffer here, especially if you are not specced for hipfire.

To add to that:
https://twitter.com/DRUNKKZ3/status/1064209063012118528

I honestly do not think SMGs fill a niche at the moment, not even with the update. I believe DICE values the self-heal too much, when regarding balance.

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Wednesday, December 5th 2018, 12:51am

Nice summary about the SMGs, but I interpreted from the patchnotes that the base spread remains largely untouched, while the spread increase while standing gets reduced, which would make more sense with the low recoil values and high spread of the low ROF SMGs, as they are the ones that need a buff the most.
Another SMG problem is the hipfre, Spread still accumulates fast, and at hipfire relevant ranges even a big advantage there can be countered by reaction, movement and a enforced point blank range. I mean at ranges from 0-6m, which the game often forces you into, the TTK can be very short for all weapons, and just losing the target for a splitsecond can decide the encounter, diminishing any hipfire bonus. That is no real issue for Suomi and the Thompson, but the Sten and similar really suffer here, especially if you are not specced for hipfire.

To add to that:
https://twitter.com/DRUNKKZ3/status/1064209063012118528

I honestly do not think SMGs fill a niche at the moment, not even with the update. I believe DICE values the self-heal too much, when regarding balance.



We all generally agree, I think. To me standing spread is base spread, not SIPS. Also, Florian is just dirty. He would mop the floor with literally any primary.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "InterimAegis" (Dec 6th 2018, 6:54pm)


VincentNZ

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Wednesday, December 5th 2018, 12:57am

Yeah, no kidding, I do not know anyone who could pull that off. I am somewhat good, but if I equip the Sten, I can take a sip of my tea and when I am done the fight might still not be over. :D

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Wednesday, December 5th 2018, 4:09am

If you really scour these data, you will find that the MP34 with a fire rate and bullet velocity spec looks an awful lot like a mini STG44 with an inferior damage model, worse recoil, and a smaller mag (obviously you have to forgo the larger mag and improved HRec to spec it like this). Here, I will assume all right side upgrades for the STG and a mixed tree for the MP34 and as much info about the incoming patch as I know to be true. You end up with:


Interesting, I had been really curious about the RoF boost setup for the MP 34. The lower RoF laser beam is what I'm intending to go with (it's my next unlock), but I did notice the RoF upgrade puts it at a higher RPM than a sizable amount of the other SMGs.
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