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VincentNZ

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111

Wednesday, December 12th 2018, 10:49am

I have not validated it yet, but these are supposed to be the changes:

Posted few minutes ago by DICE:

In brackets are original values.

Semi Auto Rifles:

Gewehr 43, Selbstlader 1916: Drop to 4 Bullets To Kill around 39 m (never).
Turner SMLE: Drops to 4 BTK around 28 m (50 m), 5 BTK around 68 m (never).
Gewehr 1-5: Drops to 4 BTK around 13 m (30 m), 5 BTK around 44 m (50 m), 6 BTK around 63 m (never).
M1 Carbine: Drops to 5 BTK around 39 m (50 m), 6 BTK around 63 m (never).

Assault Rifles:

Can no longer 4 hit kill with body shots only.
Drop to 6 BTK around 21 m (50 m), 7 BTK around 53 m (never).

LMGs, MMGs:

Can no longer 4 hit kill with body shots only.
Drop to 6 BTK around 21 m (50 m), 7 BTK around 57 m (never).

SMGs:

Can no longer 4 hit kill with body shots only.
Drop to 6 BTK around 15 m (25 m), 7 BTK around 32 m (50 m), 8 BTK around 49 m (75 m), 9 BTK around 70 m (never).
MP34 does not drop to 9 BTK at range.

Self-Loading Rifles:

Will now require one extra shot when hitting the lower body, arms or legs unless the other shot is a headshot.

Buckshot Shotguns
Unchanged: Same damage.

Slug Shotguns:
Slightly adjusted: Will deal less damage when hitting lower body, arms or legs

Well for me that is basically a way to make everything worse.

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112

Wednesday, December 12th 2018, 10:53am

RIP Battlefield V, you had so much potential. ;(
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113

Wednesday, December 12th 2018, 11:22am

Alot of drama and overgeneralization by the community going on now. Let's see how it works out.

Remember: BFV is a game with a serious lack of weaponsway, complete lack of suppression and easy gun mechanics. Somewhat extra TTK or TTD wouldn't hurt.
RIP Sraw

VincentNZ

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114

Wednesday, December 12th 2018, 11:29am

So when I try to interpret these changes I come to the following results:

-BA recons get buffed, because they have more time for aiming/follow-up shots
-Shotguns get a major buff in their niche, because everything kills slower
-MMGs get a major buff, because they have more time to go prone and 850-1200 rounds per minute do not care about any TTK changes.
-SLRs might be buffed, depending on aiming proficiency. revolver as well.
-SMGs, LMGs and ARs are getting nerfed at all ranges with the exception of high ROF, high capacity weapons like Suomi, Thompson and maybe the STG1-5. KE7 and FG42 get hit hard with their low mag capacity.
-Semi-autos are nerfed, requiring 4 shots to kill at very relevant ranges and for some with the need to have a high accuracy (Gewehr 43).
-The lower your ROF in general, the worse the weapon is in your class. I would say Sten, MP40 and EMP are hit the hardest, though. MP34, I have no idea, ROF upgrade is now useless in my book, but it does not have a 9HK. I would say it is shit, but I thought that before.

As for players and playstyles:
-Prone is the old and new meta. With MGs that is.
-Modifiers become more important, and the confirmation that there are at least head, arm, chest, lower torso and leg modifiers.
-Ease of use guns are all nerfed.
-Getting headshots is really important.

As conclusion, I have no idea what these changes are supposed to bring. It was stated the TTK changes are there to "level the playing field", which is a bold claim when the most popular and easiest to use weapons are hit hard, while headshots become more important. Was the gunplay frustrating? Yes, sometimes. Did that have anything to do with the TTK? Barely. TTD proposed an issue, as was dying to weapons that were clearly superior. It is also a 64 player game with attrition, many players need to rely on getting kills before the other has time to react. That is the whole purpose of flanking.
The problem is getting killed by players before you could react, because all damage was dumped at you at once, he was a grey silhouette in front of a grey background, you could not hear his footsteps or when being hit you could not locate the shots because all you hear is a muffled PFFPFF when being hit.
Maybe they could think a bit out of the box and address these issues, or reimplement spotting where everyone profits and engagements become more planned.

Also wild assumption: There is a heated discussion in the dev team about this topic and DRUNKZZ3 was forced to change it, but changed it so the top-aim guys, himself included, can still stomp.

Edit:
@Iwo_Jima
Yes, but we are looking at a game where automatic ROF ranges from 514 to 1200 and spread mechanics still apply to the two most popular weapon classes, and not to a small degree.

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115

Wednesday, December 12th 2018, 11:41am

Also wild assumption: There is a heated discussion in the dev team about this topic and DRUNKZZ3 was forced to change it, but changed it so the top-aim guys, himself included, can still stomp.


(Good analysis) I really don't feel it's that wild at all. We've been able to see there's plenty of internal debate, obviously between designers with different visions for the game, not only just with the TTK tests with both Alphas, but back through BF1 and such too. It's also worth noting David Sirland (who was always behind the best things we got, since BF4) is on holiday right now. I wouldn't put it past Florian to try to do the best he can with this, because this is definitely coming from above his pay grade.

They could have simply removed the 10m 4HK from the game, and increased recoil on semi-autos. Done, fixed.


The thing that really annoys me is the extremely thinly veiled point made about how the game is being changed to better appeal to the casual audience. Especially after months of marketing (starting in August when they actually got a good handle on things) pushing the game as going "back to its roots" and being more tactical, having a faster TTK, less spread, etc.

BF1's TTK 2.0, which despite being widely supported (although not quite as universally as BFV's TTK), didn't even start until a year after launch, was actually tested in the CTE (not the main game), and took five more months to get to the main game. Right now, we're seeing a near-universally hated change, done less than three weeks after launch, straight to the main game with no testing. All while very serious issues like one-frame deaths and being spotted every time you get a kill are still a thing.


Clearly, someone who has absolutely no business making gameplay decisions is making gameplay decisions.
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116

Wednesday, December 12th 2018, 11:57am

God damn it DICE what is wrong with you?

At least up the reload speeds, maybe even the ammo count if you're gonna neuter the BTK. While at it go ahead and reduce the strafe speeds and tone down the animations so headshots actually become achievable with some consistency instead of feeling like random damage spikes during spray offs.
Fix X, break Y.

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117

Wednesday, December 12th 2018, 12:32pm


My prediction: it won't fix anything.

The SG15 was 5 BTK at launch. It was capable of generating the bugged TTD.

The Sten fires super slowly. It is capable of generating the bugged TTD.

This will not fix the underlying issue. What it will do is simply change your 3 frame death to a 4 frame death... which is what the 5 BTK SG15 would generate quite often.



Exactly. It won't fix shit and will only make things MORE frustrating and cause the same issues it caused with BF1.

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118

Wednesday, December 12th 2018, 12:51pm

The thing that really annoys me is the extremely thinly veiled point made about how the game is being changed to better appeal to the casual audience.
Casuals want a lower TTK, not a higher.

VincentNZ

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119

Wednesday, December 12th 2018, 1:07pm

So the original thread is on Reddit with the exact changes:

Battlefield V TTK Change List - 12-12-2018 : BattlefieldV

They did not touch damage, they just added/tweaked the body part multpliers: Every bod part, but the head has a damage modifier of x0.85, which results, for the average joe, in a damage decrease of 15%. I actually had not even thought that this is something they could tweak. Genius, because it also makes stat pages like symthic useless, unless this is represented somewhere. Genius.

The post itself is solid marketing gold, too:
""It's widely accepted within the community that the current TTK values feel 'dialed in' or is 'perfect as is', and that the elements that need to change are those that impact TTD (Time to Death), such as netcode, health models, etc. It's important to note that both TTK and TTD are closely intertwined. Making one change to TTK directly impacts TTD, and vice versa. "But, why futz around with TTK when it's ideal at its current state?" Although not extremely vocal within our deeply engaged community, we see from our game data that the wider player base is dying too fast leading to faster churn - meaning players may be getting frustrated with dying too fast that they choose not to log back in and learn how to become more proficient at Battlefield V.""

For me this can easily be interpreted as: "You like the current gunplay. The gunplay is correlated with the real issues we have. These issues maybe lead to players being frustrated with the game, so we are changing the well-liked gunplay which could possibly mask the issues we have, since we can not fix them."

This definitely seems like a directive from really high above, since it came so fast and unexpected. However this post and the way it is implemented makes it feel like they are actively trying to sabotage it themselves, that is absurd though. Why would you make a post like this? And why would you want to run both models simultaneously? What if the old one is more popular? By the way, I've not found a server setting where I could choose to play the old model. So it is either not there, very well-hidden or the new update has not been implemented (I only play SMGs right now, so I wouldn't really know if everything was nerfed).

I am no fan of the CTE program, but I am all for testing things thoroughly, but there is no way that this shit has been tested thoroughly, it's been shoved up DICE's asses and shoved up our asses a week after they decreased TTK. And it is bloody inconsistent in it's effects.
I am a big critic of BFV, but the core gameplay and gunplay is not an issue. Everything else is.

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120

Wednesday, December 12th 2018, 1:42pm

Well this does not seem reasonable, but I'll have to play and see.

My guess is that we're back to a lesser version of the early BF1 problem, where TTK and game size in combination with mapdesign (a.k.a. meatgrinder syndrome) just won't pan out properly, albeit this time with more reasonable magazine sizes on many guns.

It would be easy to fix SMGs now, though: just give the MP40, STEN, Erma and MP34 back the 1.00 damage multiplier, and reduce the spread increase of the Suomi, Thompson and MP28.
Zormau - Battlelog / Battlefield 4

Memorable quotes not taken yet:


Of course, this ignores the non-constant cross-sectional first moment of area across the chest as well as non-constant material properties of the boob; it would be difficult to perform a more detailed analysis (as in, I'd have to have a shape function AND I'd need to derive a function for elastic modulus as a function of lateral breast coordinate) but whatever. It's 2am and I'm lazy.


I always believed science should be very hands on experience.

You should also answer this question I had posed in that thread: Would you be willing to pay your surgeon more if he was going to use a chainsaw for the opening incision of surgery? Clearly using a chainsaw isn't truly suited for surgery but that doesn't really matter. If he's "skilled" enough to be able to use the wrong tools of the trade, he should be rewarded for that skill right?