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91

Friday, December 7th 2018, 12:06pm

In the new data, Gewehr1-5 and Sturmgewehr 1-5 seem to be swapped.

NoctyrneSAGA

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92

Friday, December 7th 2018, 12:16pm

@pmax

Because Suppression "rewards missing" (even without its crowd control capabilities), yes missing can still be effective.

As I've written elsewhere, this gives weapons more options than to simply disengage or not engage when conditions are unfavorable.

In fact, I make it a point to make sure my accuracy stat is as low as possible.

Your global accuracy is irrelevant. What matters is whether or not you can place your shots where you need them to be when you need to.
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93

Friday, December 7th 2018, 2:43pm

Okay, I agree with everything you've written, although I think
In fact, I make it a point to make sure my accuracy stat is as low as possible.
is maybe a little silly.

The "accuracy" statistic (aggregated across all weapons) that the game gives you is completely useless, but I still think looking at individual weapon accuracy statistics, especially comparing one's own accuracy with similar weapons, can be useful.

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94

Sunday, December 9th 2018, 2:32pm

Bullet Trajectories

I guess I'm just going to flood this thread with pictures.

Based on the variables InitialSpeed, BDrop, and Drag, I took a guess about how bullet trajectories are calculated, and it seemed to turn out pretty reasonably, so I modeled all the weapons at 120 Hz and drew some pictures. I toyed briefly with the idea of making the scales the same, but you can see how, unless your monitor was like 12,000 pixels wide, this would not be helpful. So here y'all go:



It's harder to identify/differentiate the different symbols in this second plot, but they're the same as in the first plot, so looking at them both together might be helpful:



I also separated the weapons by class and drew those pictures, if you want to see those.

Miffyli

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95

Sunday, December 9th 2018, 6:28pm

@pmax

Pretty plots. Did you use the same algorithm used in BF1? Edit: Never mind, it says it on the webpage (speed is decreased with \(v^2 \cdot d\)).

A small nitpick: Weapons have initial velocity upwards from the pov of the shooter, making guns always zeroed at some range. This could have minor effect on the plots.

Could you also explain second plot a little bit? I could not quite understand it.

@SantaOrc
Thanks for notifying! I have fixed this for next dumps.
Links to users' thread list who have made analytical/statistical/mathematical/cool posts on Symthic:
  • 3VerstsNorth - Analysis of game mechanics in BF4 (tickrates, effects of tickrate, etc)
  • InterimAegis - Weapon comparisons/scoring.
  • leptis - Analysis of shotguns, recoil, recoil control and air drag.
  • Veritable - Scoring of BF4/BF1 firearms in terms of usability, firing and other mechanics.
  • pmax - Statistical analysis of BF4 players/games.
  • Miffyli - Random statistical analysis of BF4 battlereports/players and kill-distances. (list is cluttered with other threads).
Sorry if your name wasn't on the list, I honestly can't recall all names : ( . Nudge me if you want to be included

VincentNZ

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96

Sunday, December 9th 2018, 7:07pm

Sorry, I might not be seeing something, but what exactly is the second chart showing?

And is it right that we shoot from 1,60m? I thought the model was 2m high and the bullets came out at 1,80m, making headgltiching a thing.

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Sunday, December 9th 2018, 7:14pm

@Miffyli

I think we ended up using almost the same trajectory model, with downward acceleration being BDrop m/s^2 (this is currently 12 for all weapons) and rearward acceleration being v^2 * Drag m/s^2. (That's acceleration exactly opposite to the bullet's velocity, not just horizontally.) If there's a difference, I think it's that I began with total velocity being the speed given in the data dump, but it looks like your linked calculator uses horizontal speed as the speed from the dump, plus some bonus vertical speed to get the zeroing right. I don't know if the difference is large enough to make much of a...difference.

I didn't account for zeroing; I'm not sure where I can find that information (it might be in the data dump with some variable name that doesn't have "Zero" in it). The first plot assumes the bullets leave the barrel exactly horizontally; the second assumes they leave at an elevation angle of exactly one degree above the horizontal. I also assumed an initial height of 1.6 meters; this seemed reasonable (and I also have the vague feeling that I read that this was the case in some earlier version of BF, although I couldn't cite it for you).

If you could point me to default zeroing distances, I could maybe make that first chart a little more interesting.

@VincentNZ

I'm pretty sure that in previous games, soldier height has been 1.8 m, and I got the 1.6 from a vague recollection. I could be totally wrong!

The second chart is the trajectory you get from rotating your weapon one degree up from how you were shooting in the first chart.

VincentNZ

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98

Sunday, December 9th 2018, 7:19pm

Ah yeah that does make sense to put in a chart. Very nice work indeed. So this means that SMGs can still hit decently at 100m which is way out of their comfort zone anyway, I would have thought there is more of an effect. I think the pistols need some love, though.

In any case, very good work. Nice to look at, informative and understandable. Repped.

Miffyli

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99

Sunday, December 9th 2018, 8:10pm

@pmax

I do not know where zeroing distance could be found, but you can find the "upwards" velocity from initial velocity vector of the bullet (e.g. Line 390 here). In BF1 the zeroing was set to 75m for majority of weapons that did not have zeroing otherwise, afaik.
Links to users' thread list who have made analytical/statistical/mathematical/cool posts on Symthic:
  • 3VerstsNorth - Analysis of game mechanics in BF4 (tickrates, effects of tickrate, etc)
  • InterimAegis - Weapon comparisons/scoring.
  • leptis - Analysis of shotguns, recoil, recoil control and air drag.
  • Veritable - Scoring of BF4/BF1 firearms in terms of usability, firing and other mechanics.
  • pmax - Statistical analysis of BF4 players/games.
  • Miffyli - Random statistical analysis of BF4 battlereports/players and kill-distances. (list is cluttered with other threads).
Sorry if your name wasn't on the list, I honestly can't recall all names : ( . Nudge me if you want to be included

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100

Monday, December 10th 2018, 1:19am

I do not know where zeroing distance could be found, but you can find the "upwards" velocity from initial velocity vector of the bullet (e.g. Line 390 here). In BF1 the zeroing was set to 75m for majority of weapons that did not have zeroing otherwise, afaik.

Woah. So InitialSpeed really is just the horizontal component of the velocity. Well, it looks like,

a) I'm going to need to write some scripts to huff data directly from the data browser.

b) I need to redraw these plots taking the nonzero vertical components of the initial velocity into account.

c) Adding a horizontal line at the initial height on this new plot should tell us the default zeroing range for all the weapons.

Work has been cancelled tomorrow because of the snow, so maybe I'll have a chance to dive into (a).


Miffyli, you are a source of many good bits. Thanks.