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11

Wednesday, November 14th 2018, 10:17pm

I also dislike this catch-up mechanic based on what I've read.

I've really wanted one though.

This mechanic only exacerbates boring gameplay (capturing undefended flags, having to fight one dude flanking because its so important, and you have to go recap these quickly snatched flags because you couldn't redeploy in time or weren't there. I thought there was consensus here that that kind of small scale fighting over uncontested flags is boring and too powerful.

I can also see myself (when losing) being forced to (ab)use this mechanic. Prioritize undefended flags because they are up for grabs. And they will be because public Bf has only a handful of people consciously playing to win. And that isn't fun. And outcomes will be decided by a few people knowing about this mechainc.


What I've thought about in the past is having a dynamic respawn timer.

It would kick in when a team falls a bit behind, and scale from that point between cutting 1 to ~4 seconds of the spawn time. This naturally helps worse players, as good players die less. It artificially enhances the pressure a bad team applies by increasing average people alive, and making wipes harder.

On the "receiving end" it's just more fun as you have more enemies to kill, and the advantage scales back and stops as they catch up. Not to mention the losing team will be less frustrated and likely to quit/switch due to spending time in the spawn screen, because they get more playtime than before.

There is precedent for this in the quick spawn ability the commander in Bf4 had, that cut spawn time in half (10 to 5 seconds). Could be conveyed through a “commander” for clarity. “We are falling behind. Ssending reinforcements!” “Respawn time reduced” appears on screen.

edit: kills should definitely not count as tickets with this, but they shouldn't anyway

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Things I support
ammo regen pls

Quoted from "NoctyrneSAGA"

_____
When I play with it [Autoloading 8] I feel like I am batman taking out 1 after 1 baddie while they feel helpless and don't know who is talking out their mates.
Remove 3D spotting. It’s a mechanic that rewards bad eyesight.
Wanna help your team by sneaking through enemy territory to provide spawns? THIS IS NOT TEAMWORK FGT I HOPE YOU RUN OUT OF MOTION BALLS TOO EARLY TO BE SUCCESSFUL
Wanna be Javelin squad but only have two guys? BETTER NOT GET YOUR SOFLAM KILLED FGT THIS IS NOT TEAMWORK WITHOUT A SUPPORT DUDE DROPPING AMMO ON YOU EVERY 2 MINUTES
Please post your best M1916 clips Magazines *fixed*.


DICE pls

Squadmate Healthbars in the HUD
Minor console QoL improvements
Ping Tool idea
"Wants to talk" tag for squad menu
Adding Suppression Confirmation
Spotting suggestions
Squad priority vehicle system (and anti stealing suggestion)

Posts I should finish sometime:
Scoring system flaws (and concept)
Battlefield definition
Flow, immersion and fun in battlefield
Specializations: ideas and system rework
Gadget reworks and ideas
Vehicle gamplay
Why limited infinite ammo would be awesome
Other bitesize ideas


This post has been edited 3 times, last edit by "potetr" (Nov 14th 2018, 10:40pm)


VincentNZ

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Wednesday, November 14th 2018, 10:41pm

Yeah I thought about stuff like this as well, but I could not come up with a better idea, other than just reverting to the BF4 system. It is map dependant, too. The mechanic itself is too strong but not too bad in itself, the maps do not really support it. Arras, Rotterdam and Devastation are basically like Guilin Peaks, so players will just either go all around, or through the center, always attacking. That makes the mechanic awfully powerful. Aerodrome on the other hand is as static as your generic BF1 map. Flags just do not turn that often. I think it works better on Hamada, with the Conquest Assault approach and people actually defending for quite some time.

As for your proposal, this would definitely balance the round via onslaught, but I think it might be too hard on the users emotionally, spawning faster also means more deaths, even if you push the enemy back. I think this could get really tiring. After all you are still running uphill, just more often, if you get my drift. On the other side, "good" players would get more kills and while slowly getting overwhelmed.

I always thought the team nuke of Metro was a decent thing. It gave the losing team 9 seconds to get their shit together and put themselves in a position where they could hold their gimme, and even a push was possible if you are quick on the uptake. You need a very specific map design and a spawn trap for making that work. In any way, a genius idea, whatever server admin came up with that.

You are definitely on the right track though. You would need something subtle, yet transparent that would not just give one team handouts and keeps the gameplay rewarding and engaging for both teams. Sounds simple enough. :D

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13

Wednesday, November 14th 2018, 10:43pm

If people are actually defending, there won't be any uncontested flags.

Grab half + 1, set up your wall, and don't overextend. It's always been the better strategy.

People just don't do it because they find it boring.
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Wednesday, November 14th 2018, 10:48pm

Defending is important in Bf4 as well, yet you don't see much of it. I think my points still stand.

Besides, why force people staying to defend when defenders can instead be allowed to spawn on a flag that starts flashing when needed. Staying back isnt fun and not what people will want to do, or do.

qu
ick edit since you added the boring part: exactly, why make boring gameplay the best way to play


@VincentNZ

Yes, you have a point there. Not sure what to do about or if it is that large of an problem.

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Things I support
ammo regen pls

Quoted from "NoctyrneSAGA"

_____
When I play with it [Autoloading 8] I feel like I am batman taking out 1 after 1 baddie while they feel helpless and don't know who is talking out their mates.
Remove 3D spotting. It’s a mechanic that rewards bad eyesight.
Wanna help your team by sneaking through enemy territory to provide spawns? THIS IS NOT TEAMWORK FGT I HOPE YOU RUN OUT OF MOTION BALLS TOO EARLY TO BE SUCCESSFUL
Wanna be Javelin squad but only have two guys? BETTER NOT GET YOUR SOFLAM KILLED FGT THIS IS NOT TEAMWORK WITHOUT A SUPPORT DUDE DROPPING AMMO ON YOU EVERY 2 MINUTES
Please post your best M1916 clips Magazines *fixed*.


DICE pls

Squadmate Healthbars in the HUD
Minor console QoL improvements
Ping Tool idea
"Wants to talk" tag for squad menu
Adding Suppression Confirmation
Spotting suggestions
Squad priority vehicle system (and anti stealing suggestion)

Posts I should finish sometime:
Scoring system flaws (and concept)
Battlefield definition
Flow, immersion and fun in battlefield
Specializations: ideas and system rework
Gadget reworks and ideas
Vehicle gamplay
Why limited infinite ammo would be awesome
Other bitesize ideas



NoctyrneSAGA

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15

Wednesday, November 14th 2018, 10:58pm

Because the whole design of Conquest is that you sit on the majority and don't budge. It's unavoidable.

This is the very nature of modes that make you sit on capture zones while waiting for a big bar to fill/drain and why Conquest is disliked.
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

"Skill" may indeed be the most magical of words. Chant it well enough and any desire can be yours.

Are you a scrub?

If it flies, it dies™.

VincentNZ

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Wednesday, November 14th 2018, 10:59pm

Yeah that is the whole point. I always take Zavod as example, many players never ventured beyond flags C and D and just defended, which could be crucial in stopping the bleed, yet there was always action. If you took a backflag you could rely at some point that people would come, you could bind a lot of forces on these flags.

The bigger the maps get, the less you will find defenders. It is just natural. Far off flags will never see as much combat and at the front manpower is needed. You are not an asset to your team back there. This also holds true with more flags. It is also a psychological thing, there is always a goal when going to an enemy or contested flag. Your own flag is not much of a goal.

The half+1 rule applies on Aerodrome though, and it is a horrible map because of it.

Funny anecdote of Aerodrome: We pinned down an enemy on the top plain which has exactly one piece of cover for 100m˛. I throw smoke and advance trying to get the benefit from my SMGs just to be greeted by the only player on this map in the most nonsensical spot with a shotgun.

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Wednesday, November 14th 2018, 11:03pm

Would love a better gamemode.

Still not a reason to make the existing one worse :P

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Things I support
ammo regen pls

Quoted from "NoctyrneSAGA"

_____
When I play with it [Autoloading 8] I feel like I am batman taking out 1 after 1 baddie while they feel helpless and don't know who is talking out their mates.
Remove 3D spotting. It’s a mechanic that rewards bad eyesight.
Wanna help your team by sneaking through enemy territory to provide spawns? THIS IS NOT TEAMWORK FGT I HOPE YOU RUN OUT OF MOTION BALLS TOO EARLY TO BE SUCCESSFUL
Wanna be Javelin squad but only have two guys? BETTER NOT GET YOUR SOFLAM KILLED FGT THIS IS NOT TEAMWORK WITHOUT A SUPPORT DUDE DROPPING AMMO ON YOU EVERY 2 MINUTES
Please post your best M1916 clips Magazines *fixed*.


DICE pls

Squadmate Healthbars in the HUD
Minor console QoL improvements
Ping Tool idea
"Wants to talk" tag for squad menu
Adding Suppression Confirmation
Spotting suggestions
Squad priority vehicle system (and anti stealing suggestion)

Posts I should finish sometime:
Scoring system flaws (and concept)
Battlefield definition
Flow, immersion and fun in battlefield
Specializations: ideas and system rework
Gadget reworks and ideas
Vehicle gamplay
Why limited infinite ammo would be awesome
Other bitesize ideas



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18

Wednesday, November 14th 2018, 11:23pm

Dan Mitre says on the topic

danmitre comments on BFV Deluxe Edition Launch Reddit AMAA

Quoted

Basically and keeping this brief, the comeback mechanic starts near the end of a round when the ticket bleeds are extremely close on each team. At that point, a multiplier is applied to the losing team to help them capture the cap point faster. We've recently improved this by ensuring that the mechanic comes in later at the right point to make for excellent gameplay experience while toning down the multiplier so the winning team doesn't have too much of an advantage.

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Wednesday, November 14th 2018, 11:31pm

always thought the team nuke of Metro was a decent thing. It gave the losing team 9 seconds to get their shit together and put themselves in a position where they could hold their gimme, and even a push was possible if you are quick on the uptake. You need a very specific map design and a spawn trap for making that work. In any way, a genius idea, whatever server admin came up with that.



You think a team-wide kill is fair and good, but slightly faster cap speed, which does nothing by itself unless the losing team actually makes the push and caps stuff, and even then you're talking only a few seconds advantage for it?

k.

Quoted from "J0hn-Stuart-Mill"


Darktan13

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Wednesday, November 14th 2018, 11:35pm

No matter what flag burn system you use, conquest will *always* be about holding half + 1 flags to win.

the whole gamemode is incredibly defensive and passive from it's core.

The simplest solution is just making maps even-flag maps. Now in order to gain a meaningful lead, you have to push forwards.

Quoted from "J0hn-Stuart-Mill"