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: Jun 23rd 2012

Platform: PC

Location: Germany, Bavaria


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Tuesday, October 23rd 2018, 1:53pm

a game needs to be accessible and playable for everyone, at least if you want to reach the whole market.

That's basically a tautology. I would like to provide an anecdote of a recent discussion I had in my historical fencing club.
There is a general movement in the HEMA (Historical European Martial Arts) community towards more and more strongly reglemented tournaments. This starts at "what is considered a hit" and "how many points in how much time must be achieved", and goes on to things like "what equipment must be worn, what standards must this equipment fulfill" and "you may not use certain attacks". While it seems reasonable at a glance it does have undesirable ramifications, especially considering how it is implemented. In the ruleset currently used by the largest German HEMA union you may not wear any metal armor aside from your fencing mask. While intended to prevent accidental injury it also means that you can not use the most protective gear available (in case of hand protection that would be tempered steel mitten gauntlets). Often enough we now see rules stating that blows to the hand are not endorsed and will not be counted, despite those being a hugely important factor in the kind of combat it's supposed to simulate. We also have strict regulations as to what sword-simulators are allowed (weight, length, flexibility). These requirements put the allowed tools incredibly far off from what the swords they're supposed to simulate were actually like. This massively increases the speed of fencing exchanges, leads to reckless fighting and drastically reduces the catalogue of practical techniques.
Why is this relevant? Because it's being done to make it accessible to more people and fit for the masses. At the same time it is alienating its previous core demographic who no longer see it as what they'd come to love.

Mass appeal is great for a company selling a product. It is not necessarily great for the individual trying to enjoy their thing.
not because my traditional skillset was very good, but the secondary skills like tactical movement, suppressive fire and a more attentive approahc in general, were actually supported by the game mechanics, which made the game really deep and stayed very accessible, and it actually helped everyone.

Others called that "lowering the skill ceiling" or "compressed skill gap". I was/am fine with that, and I still think BF4 is the best modern-day Battlefield to date. Nota bene that it did not help everyone equally (otherwise it would have done nothing to the "skill gap" at all). It limited those with extremely developed traditional skillsets. Just like competitive Streetfighter players complained about there no longer being 1-frame-windows for combos (extended to a minimum of 3) because their hard mechanical skill lost a lot of its importance. https://youtu.be/iSgA_nK_w3A?t=57
I do not necessarily think the new mechanics in gunplay are totally detrimental, and they might turn out to be rather good...

I kinda don't like the idea of having learnable recoil patterns. It makes a game less accessible and feels incredibly "gamey", not grounded in reality. In combination with the "spread-recoil" mix it probably won't be an issue though.
Yeah there is no spotting in CS:GO, because there does not need to be, there are two ways around the map and when someone speaks of crate No2 everybody knows what the deal is.

I have no idea what Crate No. 2 is. Not something I couldn't learn, but something I can't be bothered to. Just as I probably can't be bothered to learn an entire MOBA or fighting game roster's abilities, which means I can't play those games at a reasonable level, so I usually don't bother playing them at all.
SOme more questions though that about spread in BFV though:
-Base spread is still base inaccuracy, right? It is not a base that is added to every shot like recoil on top of the new spread increase factor.
-Wouldn't this effectively mean that there are now three models at work? Recoil, front sight recoil and base spread?

If I get my hands on another Beta or something I'll maybe try to do some frame-by-frame analysis of recoil to see what patterns are discernible. I'm hoping for escalating recoil randomization (replacing spread increase).
Zormau - Battlelog / Battlefield 4

Memorable quotes not taken yet:

Of course, this ignores the non-constant cross-sectional first moment of area across the chest as well as non-constant material properties of the boob; it would be difficult to perform a more detailed analysis (as in, I'd have to have a shape function AND I'd need to derive a function for elastic modulus as a function of lateral breast coordinate) but whatever. It's 2am and I'm lazy.

I always believed science should be very hands on experience.

You should also answer this question I had posed in that thread: Would you be willing to pay your surgeon more if he was going to use a chainsaw for the opening incision of surgery? Clearly using a chainsaw isn't truly suited for surgery but that doesn't really matter. If he's "skilled" enough to be able to use the wrong tools of the trade, he should be rewarded for that skill right?

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Zormau" (Oct 23rd 2018, 2:07pm)

Posts: 113

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: Apr 4th 2014

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Saturday, November 10th 2018, 7:03pm

Any update for retail?


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  • "Miffyli" started this thread

Posts: 3,725

Date of registration
: Mar 21st 2013

Platform: PC

Location: __main__, Finland

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Monday, November 12th 2018, 10:13pm


It is on a post-it note on my desk ^^'. I have been at giving any ETAs, but hopefully inside two weeks for the crude dump.
Links to users' thread list who have made analytical/statistical/mathematical/cool posts on Symthic:
  • 3VerstsNorth - Analysis of game mechanics in BF4 (tickrates, effects of tickrate, etc)
  • leptis - Analysis of shotguns, recoil, recoil control and air drag.
  • Veritable - Scoring of BF4/BF1 firearms in terms of usability, firing and other mechanics.
  • Miffyli - Random statistical analysis of BF4 battlereports/players and kill-distances. (list is cluttered with other threads).
Sorry if your name wasn't on the list, I honestly can't recall all names : ( . Nudge me if you want to be included