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VincentNZ

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Saturday, November 24th 2018, 2:09pm

Talking of making mistakes, do you think DICE left an opportunity out by not having any viable suppression system in BF5?


Hmm, hard to say. BF4 did not have a relevant suppression system once they adjusted it. BFV gives a spot tendencially and there are a few people actually using the MMGs. How did suppression work in BF1, I can not recall.

Hau_ruck

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Saturday, November 24th 2018, 3:35pm

Talking of making mistakes, do you think DICE left an opportunity out by not having any viable suppression system in BF5?


Hmm, hard to say. BF4 did not have a relevant suppression system once they adjusted it. BFV gives a spot tendencially and there are a few people actually using the MMGs. How did suppression work in BF1, I can not recall.



BF1 suppression with LMGs worked very well at mid range against both snipers and medics to bugger up their aim and allow the MG to win out. This was particularly the case when you equipped the suppression enhancing specializations. Now in BFV we basically just have to dance around like maniacs in order to avoid headshots. So we've replaced an already decent system with the silly system that exists in every other shooter, where snipers are still theoretically kings of every engagement and the rest of us plebs just have to rely on them missing with their OP super rifles while we prance around everywhere.

Also, yes BF4 did have a decent suppression system by the end. It was almost non existent for ages but on one of the later patches they made it a thing.

VincentNZ

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Saturday, November 24th 2018, 4:08pm

Talking of making mistakes, do you think DICE left an opportunity out by not having any viable suppression system in BF5?


Hmm, hard to say. BF4 did not have a relevant suppression system once they adjusted it. BFV gives a spot tendencially and there are a few people actually using the MMGs. How did suppression work in BF1, I can not recall.




Also, yes BF4 did have a decent suppression system by the end. It was almost non existent for ages but on one of the later patches they made it a thing.


Yeah? I only recall that at the beginning suppression increased horizontal recoil, which I found dangerous because it made some weapons mostly unusable under fire, especially bullpups with a higher ROF. I thought it was adjusted to be only visual in the end. I liked the BF3 system were it had a marginal effect on spread, that got slightly worse over time.
Now personally I do not want anything similar in this game, not even a visual or audio effect (which I believe is in), because in my book it hinders the flow of the game, when you can even see or hear less. Also quite a few people are already using the prone option and I think they get rewarded too much, over an active and more mobile playstyle. On the other hand, without all the intel from the minimap and spotting, I can not blame anyone lying in a corner, instead of planning ahead and do successful flanking maneuvers.

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Saturday, November 24th 2018, 4:37pm

instead of planning ahead and do successful flanking maneuvers.
Isn't suppression primarily meant to achieve this as one of it's main goals?
RIP Sraw

VincentNZ

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Saturday, November 24th 2018, 6:39pm

instead of planning ahead and do successful flanking maneuvers.
Isn't suppression primarily meant to achieve this as one of it's main goals?


Possibly. With this open kind of map design, I do not really know. There are rarely any clear lanes to suppress, but lying down in a corner for people to run by that is decently effective.

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Saturday, November 24th 2018, 9:53pm

BF3 was pretty much just a big increase in minSpread.

BF4/1 was an increase in SIPS and hRec for every weapon but BAs. BAs got increased minSpread.

BFV Suppression is useless. You're sticking your neck out trying to spot dudes by shooting at them, but there is no added protection for you while you're doing it. All you're doing is making it easy for them to find you.

The reduced situational awareness is ineffective and almost completely unnoticeable but even if they cranked it up a ton, it still wouldn't be enough. The main purpose of Suppression in BF is to reduce the enemy's DPS. It prevents people from sitting in one good headglitch spot forever. Doing something like tunnel vision or muffled audio doesn't stop them from killing you and your teammates quickly. If the map is super linear or if your target is using a sniper rifle, these effects are irrelevant. To them, the game is still the same shooting gallery experience just with maybe slightly smaller FOV than normal. And even if the map was wide open, your teammates still wouldn't be able to take advantage of the enemy's reduced situational awareness. Since the DPS is unaffected, they can just kill whoever is trying to perform Suppressive fire and the effects disappear. Now your teammates are in danger again. This is why the change in DPS is so essential. You are sticking your neck out and giving your position away. You need to at least be able to prevent your target from being able to return fire effectively long enough for your teammates to get in range. This is something that BFV's Suppression is incapable of and that won't change until the audio/visual effects reach the point of actually making the player deaf-blind.
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Thursday, November 29th 2018, 6:50am

BF3 was pretty much just a big increase in minSpread.

BF4/1 was an increase in SIPS and hRec for every weapon but BAs. BAs got increased minSpread.

BFV Suppression is useless. You're sticking your neck out trying to spot dudes by shooting at them, but there is no added protection for you while you're doing it. All you're doing is making it easy for them to find you.

The reduced situational awareness is ineffective and almost completely unnoticeable but even if they cranked it up a ton, it still wouldn't be enough. The main purpose of Suppression in BF is to reduce the enemy's DPS. It prevents people from sitting in one good headglitch spot forever. Doing something like tunnel vision or muffled audio doesn't stop them from killing you and your teammates quickly. If the map is super linear or if your target is using a sniper rifle, these effects are irrelevant. To them, the game is still the same shooting gallery experience just with maybe slightly smaller FOV than normal. And even if the map was wide open, your teammates still wouldn't be able to take advantage of the enemy's reduced situational awareness. Since the DPS is unaffected, they can just kill whoever is trying to perform Suppressive fire and the effects disappear. Now your teammates are in danger again. This is why the change in DPS is so essential. You are sticking your neck out and giving your position away. You need to at least be able to prevent your target from being able to return fire effectively long enough for your teammates to get in range. This is something that BFV's Suppression is incapable of and that won't change until the audio/visual effects reach the point of actually making the player deaf-blind.
I absolutely agree with this point. When I play as a support I am hunkered down with my bipod and defending an objective; I'm completely vulnerable since I am a stationary target. Even though I gain additional weapon control, I'm relying on my LMG, MMG to lay suprisive fire to cover my team mates and give them enemy a hard time shooting back. Instead the supression mechanic is just a fancy visual effect in BFV and as soon as they pop up from cover they can pop in a couple of shots on my stationary body and kill me quite easily. But nooo, youtubers constantly complained about the supression mechanic and how it affects their aim, so DICE has now gotten rid of it to please these folks.


With the above points mentioned about the broken aim (console) with the stationary weapons, this is something DICE needs to fix or else it is literally unplayable.


As well as the transportation vehicle incorrectly displaying that it is available in the deploy screen, yet when you spawn in there is no vehicle present! How does no one at DICE come across this! and even if they did how did they not think to patch it before release...sigh.

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Thursday, November 29th 2018, 12:06pm

Quoted

(this entire discussion of suppression)

I find it shockingly disingenuous that people complain about women of color on the battlefield in the Second World War being "inauthentic" and "breaking their immersion" but then seem to have no problem ignoring the fact that central to the design of absolutely every single real-world infantry doctrine, weapon, and tactic is the fact that being shot at is terrifying and makes people less effective. It's ridiculous when I'm not only putting bullets all over a sniper, but I've actually hit him a copule of times, and he still domes me with a single shot. That breaks my immersion. They've made an entire game full of automatic weapons while ignoring the entire reason they exist in the first place.

NoctyrneSAGA

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Thursday, November 29th 2018, 12:20pm

@pmax

That's because the complaints are being made by different groups.
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Thursday, November 29th 2018, 2:10pm

Quoted

(this entire discussion of suppression)

I find it shockingly disingenuous that people complain about women of color on the battlefield in the Second World War being "inauthentic" and "breaking their immersion" but then seem to have no problem ignoring the fact that central to the design of absolutely every single real-world infantry doctrine, weapon, and tactic is the fact that being shot at is terrifying and makes people less effective. It's ridiculous when I'm not only putting bullets all over a sniper, but I've actually hit him a copule of times, and he still domes me with a single shot. That breaks my immersion. They've made an entire game full of automatic weapons while ignoring the entire reason they exist in the first place.


Exactly! It breaks a great deal of the world war 2 authenticity. It's like DICE gives a big fat slap in the face of the base elements that makes up a firefight to please the rather narrow minded E-sport competitive scene, which idea of suppression does usually not go deeper than: ''rewarding bad aim''. Which I cant really blame them, because DICE never explained the concept in-game or whatsoever.
Imagine Saving Private Ryan. The on-the-beach-germans-behind-sandbags-on-the-hill scene. ''COVERING FIRE'' Well, movie is over. All the Americans die here. Suppression doesnt work anymore. Twitch headshotting l33t pro aim skills yo! Had to jump like a madman and do sum ADAD strafing to matrixstyle dodge the bullets. (which actually happens in PUBG)

PUBG doesnt have suppression, Fortnite doesnt have suppression, and they all have flourishing E-sport scenes. Is that why DICE got rid of suppression?
RIP Sraw