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rainkloud

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101

Saturday, December 8th 2018, 5:07pm

Panzer IV default cannon:

InnerBlastRadius 1.75
BlastDamage 100.0
BlastRadius 5.0

Panzer IV with the PAK 40 upgrade:

InnerBlastRadius 1.29999995232
BlastDamage 85.0
BlastRadius 3.0

(The upgrade text doesn't mention that you get worse anti infantry performance so this may be news to some)

Valentine 2 pounder default gun:

InnerBlastRadius 1.79999995232
BlastDamage 60.0
BlastRadius 3.0

6 Pounder upgrade

InnerBlastRadius 1.29999995232
BlastDamage 85.0
BlastRadius 3.0

So the PIV default cannon is quite a bit more powerful than the Valentine equivalent when talking anti infantry work.

Also regarding APCR for Tiger

Standard HE shell:

StartDamage 150.0
InnerBlastRadius 1.5
BlastDamage 100.0
BlastRadius 5.0

APCR:

StartDamage 230.0
InnerBlastRadius 0.75
BlastDamage 34.0
BlastRadius 0.759999990463

(Start damage being the impact damage so the calc is 150 + 100 = 250 or 25% damage vs a Churchill front armor)


So APCR doesn't make a huge difference from the front (but it does give you a little more flexibility with angles to ensure a 4 hit kill)

But if you have good angles from a side/rear shot then it should be worth it:

230 * 1.66 + 34 = 415
230 * 2.2 + 34 = 540

VS

150 * 1.66 +100 = 349
150 * 2.2 + 100 = 430

So APCR is good for long distance or fast moving enemies and for side and rear shots. Also very good against light tanks since the turret modifier means you can inflict max damage from any angle and angle modifiers only effect direct impact damage which APCR excels at.

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102

Saturday, December 8th 2018, 5:49pm

Panzer IV default cannon:

InnerBlastRadius 1.75
BlastDamage 100.0
BlastRadius 5.0

Panzer IV with the PAK 40 upgrade:

InnerBlastRadius 1.29999995232
BlastDamage 85.0
BlastRadius 3.0

(The upgrade text doesn't mention that you get worse anti infantry performance so this may be news to some)

Valentine 2 pounder default gun:

InnerBlastRadius 1.79999995232
BlastDamage 60.0
BlastRadius 3.0

6 Pounder upgrade

InnerBlastRadius 1.29999995232
BlastDamage 85.0
BlastRadius 3.0

So the PIV default cannon is quite a bit more powerful than the Valentine equivalent when talking anti infantry work.

Also regarding APCR for Tiger

Standard HE shell:

StartDamage 150.0
InnerBlastRadius 1.5
BlastDamage 100.0
BlastRadius 5.0

APCR:

StartDamage 230.0
InnerBlastRadius 0.75
BlastDamage 34.0
BlastRadius 0.759999990463

(Start damage being the impact damage so the calc is 150 + 100 = 250 or 25% damage vs a Churchill front armor)


So APCR doesn't make a huge difference from the front (but it does give you a little more flexibility with angles to ensure a 4 hit kill)

But if you have good angles from a side/rear shot then it should be worth it:

230 * 1.66 + 34 = 415
230 * 2.2 + 34 = 540

VS

150 * 1.66 +100 = 349
150 * 2.2 + 100 = 430

So APCR is good for long distance or fast moving enemies and for side and rear shots. Also very good against light tanks since the turret modifier means you can inflict max damage from any angle and angle modifiers only effect direct impact damage which APCR excels at.
I have no idea what all those numbers mean. What means 85 blast damage on PAK? It can deal at best 85 damage?
It means I should let my tank unspecced as the PAK is nerfing my tank?

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Jojo_Bizarre" (Dec 8th 2018, 5:57pm)


NoctyrneSAGA

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103

Saturday, December 8th 2018, 8:28pm

You can't deny that Tiger MG is bad right? There is a huge difference between Staghound MG and Tiger MG for instance. Why don't you like wheels? Sometimes I get stuck with my Staghound, but with the cannon recoil, I can manage to unstuck me. It doesn't change anything in combat anw. It has better mobility than 38T on german side.

Yes smoke launcher is the reason I enjoy german tanks, it is so great, especially in tank vs tank fight as it gives you vision in 3rd person view. Not because of S mine launcher. I find it funnier doing kills with it than being efficient, but maybe that's because I play with a gunner.

Did you play AA valentine? This tank is totally overpowered. Panzer IV got case round, but long switching time (it's fast on AA Valentine), low fire rate (high rof on AA Valentine) and only 8 shells (40 on Valentine). https://youtu.be/q3itzE41I9I just as an example, and now I'm able to aim correctly in 3rd person view so I'm fine moving and killing targets.


Tiger MG is the same as every other German tank MG. Tiger sucks because it's the Tiger. It's slow and basically a tank destroyer with a turret. It's not that great at farming infantry from my experience.

Yes I use the Valentine AA. And yes I farm infantry using both case and normal rounds. I still wouldn't say that UK is drastically better than Germans.
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rainkloud

jet proximity scan <3

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104

Saturday, December 8th 2018, 11:07pm

So APCR is good for long distance or fast moving enemies and for side and rear shots. Also very good against light tanks since the turret modifier means you can inflict max damage from any angle and angle modifiers only effect direct impact damage which APCR excels at.
I have no idea what all those numbers mean. What means 85 blast damage on PAK? It can deal at best 85 damage?
It means I should let my tank unspecced as the PAK is nerfing my tank?



Soldier Health 100
Tank Health 1000

When damage sustained goes over 100 for soldier or 1000 for tank they ascend to heaven.

Start Damage (at least as it relates to tank shells) = direct damage or what the game refers to as impact damage. Impact damage is susceptible to angle modifiers and material modifiers. Angle modifiers are how direct a shot is. 90 degree shot is best and gives max damage while zero degree is worst and gives harsh penalties to damage. Material modifiers take the base damage and then modify it based on what the target hit is. So a weapon might have a 2.0 modifier against a light tank and a .5 modifier against a heavy tank (just examples there). based on the game files we can see start damage and the angle modifiers but we don't have access to the material modifiers yet. Or at least I don't And the lack of a properly functioning practice range means we can't just test them on the field to figure out what the modifiers are. I would be surprised to see different material modifiers for a vehicle's different shells though so I think we can still safely make comparisons.

Blast damage is much simpler. It cannot be bothered to give a shit about modifiers. It does what it says it does in terms of damage against a tank. When a tank shell hits you'll see the direct damage registered first and then, a fraction of a second later, the blast damage second. It almost looks like you're getting two hits but impact and blast damage being separate is the reason why. You can see what I mean in this video here: https://youtu.be/4c3ydLGlEf0?t=964

It's at 16:04 in case the time link doesn't work. Ignore the first shot as its a glancing blow. But the second shot you can see does 18 damage but then quickly changes to 29. That extra damage is the blast damage registering.

As it relates to infantry (well vehicles too actually in the case of things like bombs) the inner blast damage is the maximum radius in which the blast will do full damage to them. The blast radius is the over all maximum area of the blast and any infantry within that will sustain damage. Once the target is outside the inner blast radius they will take less damage from the hit and that damage will decrease as the target is closer to the maximum blast radius edge.

Now that we know that we can go back to the APCR example:

230 impact damage * 1.66 (bonus for hitting 90 degree shot on the side of the enemy tank) + 34 blast damage = 415 which means the enemy tank is hit for 41% damage and is left with 59% health

Now you asked about the PIV and the upgrade. If you want the best anti infantry setup then leave the gun unupgraded as you can see it loses blast damage and area when it gets the upgrade. However there's some info I left out on that upgrade:


PIV PAK 40

RateOfFire 18.0
StartDamage 120.0
Speed 265

PIV Default 75mm

RateOfFire 20.0
StartDamage 85.0
Speed 130

So Pak40 makes your rounds do better damage to enemy vehicles and makes the rounds A LOT faster at the expense of worse blast damage and a slightly slower rate of fire.

NoctyrneSAGA

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105

Saturday, December 8th 2018, 11:27pm

When a tank shell hits you'll see the direct damage registered first and then, a fraction of a second later, the blast damage second. It almost looks like you're getting two hits but impact and blast damage being separate is the reason why. You can see what I mean in this video here: https://youtu.be/4c3ydLGlEf0?t=964

It's at 16:04 in case the time link doesn't work. Ignore the first shot as its a glancing blow. But the second shot you can see does 18 damage but then quickly changes to 29. That extra damage is the blast damage registering.


Glad other people have noticed
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106

Saturday, December 8th 2018, 11:28pm

You said no blast damage modifier vs tank, what about infantry? I one shot enemy soldiers with PAK cannon with blast damage, I always felt it did more blast damage than any others shells (except howitzer). But you wrote it's only 85 blast damage vs infantry, that seems low? Also, it has higher drop than others shells, so I find it so and so vs tanks.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Jojo_Bizarre" (Dec 8th 2018, 11:52pm)


NoctyrneSAGA

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107

Saturday, December 8th 2018, 11:50pm

Blast does have a material modifier so I think he's only talking about how blast does not have angle mods.
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rainkloud

jet proximity scan <3

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108

Sunday, December 9th 2018, 1:31am

You said no blast damage modifier vs tank, what about infantry? I one shot enemy soldiers with PAK cannon with blast damage, I always felt it did more blast damage than any others shells (except howitzer). But you wrote it's only 85 blast damage vs infantry, that seems low? Also, it has higher drop than others shells, so I find it so and so vs tanks.


You may be hitting them with the shell directly (in which case the impact damage also applies) which would be easier to do on account of the extra speed. You might be hitting wounded soldiers who are already <85 health. Also, I remember hearing that there would be damage amplification for blasts that occur in enclosed spaces. I'm not sure if that made it in and if it did how much impact it has.

PZIV

Gravity -9.81000041962
Drag 0.00300000002608

PZIV PAK 40

Gravity -9.81000041962
Drag 0.00300000002608

Drop should be the same but the PAK40 is A LOT faster so between the two it should be the superior shell when it comes to accuracy.

There shouldn't be a blast modifier vs infantry unless something has changed. There are upgrades that reduce blast damage like the ones for planes that reduce blast by like 15%. I don't know if there are infantry specializations that do that as well as I haven't spent a ton of time with them.

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109

Sunday, December 9th 2018, 11:20am

Yep I checked all my clips and it never one shot infantry with full health in fact. Kinda sad. Well, still better with PAK, as the base cannon is really bad vs tanks because of the really high drop and there is no way to take the AP round without PAK variant. So it only leaves german side with 38T as a decent anti infantry tank.

Hau_ruck

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110

Sunday, December 9th 2018, 1:20pm

In my experience I've found the MG to be more useful than the main gun against infantry anyway. The main gun obscures the enemy too so you basically give them a free smokescreen. MGs kill perfectly fine and saves shells for use against tanks/ cover