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  • "Zormau" started this thread

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21

Saturday, September 15th 2018, 11:55am

Not sure if you've noticed, but the revive change falls much in line with other changes to gameplay. Attrition, reduced ammo, less self-sufficient tanks, it all serves to make you less of an unstoppable force on the battlefield. Making revives less omnipresent and especially prevent you from simply reviving while under attack. A good change I think, despite the fact that overall K/D will go down because of it.
Zormau - Battlelog / Battlefield 4

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Of course, this ignores the non-constant cross-sectional first moment of area across the chest as well as non-constant material properties of the boob; it would be difficult to perform a more detailed analysis (as in, I'd have to have a shape function AND I'd need to derive a function for elastic modulus as a function of lateral breast coordinate) but whatever. It's 2am and I'm lazy.


I always believed science should be very hands on experience.

You should also answer this question I had posed in that thread: Would you be willing to pay your surgeon more if he was going to use a chainsaw for the opening incision of surgery? Clearly using a chainsaw isn't truly suited for surgery but that doesn't really matter. If he's "skilled" enough to be able to use the wrong tools of the trade, he should be rewarded for that skill right?


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Saturday, September 15th 2018, 11:55am

Yeah I would say to hold your horses until you see the other maps. From the pictures and video snippets we saw I would assume they will go according to the BF1 map design mindset. Large and very open. With more tanks, less chance to flank tanks as infantry and limited range on the Panzerfausts I think the vehicles will be fine.

A very interesting choice is to lock the top gunner behind and upgrade. I do not see why the typical BF players would want to "waste" an upgrade slot on something that does not directly benefit themselves, but on wider maps the swivel gunner might be more lethal, if the the tank stays mobile. Otherwise that guy really needs more protection, or a way to duck and blindfire from 3p.

I think we should not only focus on tanks, but the other vehicles as well. The half-track right now is much more in a bad place than the tanks will ever be. Changes should be made to the protection of the gunners, the speed and the firing angle. I also do not understand why they specifically exclude transport vehicles from any kind of customization system.

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Saturday, September 15th 2018, 12:09pm

Yeah reviving works and is also more psychologically rewarding with the animation, but you need to throw a smoke to make it acceptable.
I assume you're talking about the length of the animation. If you compare it to BF4, it's really very similar in length. First you need to take out the paddles, then charging the paddles, then activating the revive. All of this adds up to the same length of the BFV animation (around 2 seconds), where you don't even need to take out a piece of equipment first. I really don't get the fuss over this.


Yeah as Noctyrne said. BF4 allowed more mobility, more awareness and I gut even whip out my weapon faster. Plus there was a nifty range on these paddles, too. It wasn't as bad as I thought, but the smoke was mandatory. I am still against the system because it is really reliant on that grenade. I will grant them that the animation alone makes me more grateful than before, when somebody random revives me and a satsified grunt if that guy uses a smoke before. I suspect DICE is counting on that psychological thing to socially bind people to revives and incentivize revives that way. I do not know if that works.

I rightfully fear that this will be screwed with though in the next beta or release, where they will remove some crates and give us another mag instead to battle the attrition complaints, which will make things worse, since the whole revive industry counts on that. Less smoke grenades available, less revives. Also less cover to move up on, there is lots to do with the smoke grenades after all. Reviving is like a cardhouse and very vulnerable, with every nerf to ammo they take a card from the bottom.

I also have my doubts about the dragging mechanic. It has been postponed for good reason and I can just imagine what a mess two conjoined hitboxes can be. I also do not see why I can not revive a person right there with smoke cover, but can drag him slowly to a safer place.

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Saturday, September 15th 2018, 1:14pm

despite the fact that overall K/D will go down because of it.


But what if overall revives go down too?
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VincentNZ

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Saturday, September 15th 2018, 3:21pm

Just to add onto the vehicle debate, just now I found this map layout shot in a video of levelcap: That one seems to offer four vehicles per side, with again six flags, two of them seem rather void of actual cover from anything, while two others seem to have a single building as cover and two a semi-urban environment probably similar to St. Quentin in BF1.

I think tanks will be a much greater threat on that map, but maybe elevation is somewhat special as well.
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Saturday, September 15th 2018, 8:16pm

Yeah as Noctyrne said. BF4 allowed more mobility, more awareness and I gut even whip out my weapon faster. Plus there was a nifty range on these paddles, too. It wasn't as bad as I thought, but the smoke was mandatory. I am still against the system because it is really reliant on that grenade. I will grant them that the animation alone makes me more grateful than before, when somebody random revives me and a satsified grunt if that guy uses a smoke before. I suspect DICE is counting on that psychological thing to socially bind people to revives and incentivize revives that way. I do not know if that works.
Sure, there are some cool tricks you can use with the paddles if you have cover. And sure, you have a bit more mobility, but you're still a sitting duck if you try to revive someone in the open with enemies in the area. It's fine by me if we dissuade people from rambo-reviving and if it encourages thoughtful use of smoke grenades. In my opinion the real reason people whine about the medic class is because of the limiting weapon choices (SMGs) and the obscure UI elements that make the revive icons absurdly hard to see.

I'm not sure I get your complaint about buffing the ammo supply? How is more ammo going to lead to fewer revives?

Totally agree on the dragging mechanic, I'm far from convinced it's going to add anything meaningful to the game, unless it's very quick and easy to initiate, allows you to drag at sprint speed and makes you a smaller target as well.

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Saturday, September 15th 2018, 10:31pm

Yeah as Noctyrne said. BF4 allowed more mobility, more awareness and I gut even whip out my weapon faster. Plus there was a nifty range on these paddles, too. It wasn't as bad as I thought, but the smoke was mandatory. I am still against the system because it is really reliant on that grenade. I will grant them that the animation alone makes me more grateful than before, when somebody random revives me and a satsified grunt if that guy uses a smoke before. I suspect DICE is counting on that psychological thing to socially bind people to revives and incentivize revives that way. I do not know if that works.
Sure, there are some cool tricks you can use with the paddles if you have cover. And sure, you have a bit more mobility, but you're still a sitting duck if you try to revive someone in the open with enemies in the area. It's fine by me if we dissuade people from rambo-reviving and if it encourages thoughtful use of smoke grenades. In my opinion the real reason people whine about the medic class is because of the limiting weapon choices (SMGs) and the obscure UI elements that make the revive icons absurdly hard to see.

I'm not sure I get your complaint about buffing the ammo supply? How is more ammo going to lead to fewer revives?

Totally agree on the dragging mechanic, I'm far from convinced it's going to add anything meaningful to the game, unless it's very quick and easy to initiate, allows you to drag at sprint speed and makes you a smaller target as well.


I also find the SMGs rather limiting due to the high TTK of these low ROF, low recoil weapons. I find that highly irritating.

To clarify on the ammo isse: Right now you have two smoke grenades and I played in a squad of two medics moving from flag to flag topping off our used smoke grenades each time, like a ritual. That allowed some nifty smoke walls with up to four smokes and constant revives. Now DICE said that they will look into the attrition system by giving us one more mag on spawn and one more by topping off. Everybody cheered. However they said they will reduce the effectiveness of the ammo crates, likely by reducing their number on the map. That could hurt the output of our smoke grenades possibly or that of others, if you get my drift.

Further, right now, the ammo pouch does not resupply grenades or gadgets. The support's ammo crate apparently does, but the mechanics are very unclear to me and it takes quite some time. So that is why the ammo and attrition is hurting the revives. A bit of a mental leap, I know. :D

  • "Zormau" started this thread

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Saturday, September 15th 2018, 11:00pm

despite the fact that overall K/D will go down because of it.


But what if overall revives go down too?

Fewer in-combat rambo-revives in places where you shouldn't revive is fine with me. Overall revives WILL go down, absolutely, because people will have to be smart about when to revive and when not to.

Also smokes are by far not the only way to get a revive. If you're still in deep and the enemy theoretically has LoS on the spot where you need to revive, yes, you will have to pop smoke - or not revive because it's a bad spot. That's only for revives while engaged in combat. Lots and lots of revives arrive after an engagement has ended, and those don't require smoke and still allow an offensive to keep momentum more effectively.

As for reducing ammo-crate effectiveness while adding more spawning ammo: they might just make it so that you can only one mag and maybe one explosive/gadget per interaction, which would be on a shorter cooldown. Could work out okay. Requires a few seconds extra to top off, but still allows you to somewhat reasonably keep smokin'.

Soldier dragging sounds like a piss-poor and useless idea. Just let em crawl slowly, at the cost of a faster bleedout while crawling.
Zormau - Battlelog / Battlefield 4

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Of course, this ignores the non-constant cross-sectional first moment of area across the chest as well as non-constant material properties of the boob; it would be difficult to perform a more detailed analysis (as in, I'd have to have a shape function AND I'd need to derive a function for elastic modulus as a function of lateral breast coordinate) but whatever. It's 2am and I'm lazy.


I always believed science should be very hands on experience.

You should also answer this question I had posed in that thread: Would you be willing to pay your surgeon more if he was going to use a chainsaw for the opening incision of surgery? Clearly using a chainsaw isn't truly suited for surgery but that doesn't really matter. If he's "skilled" enough to be able to use the wrong tools of the trade, he should be rewarded for that skill right?


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Monday, September 24th 2018, 8:11pm

Well yeah.

A weapon that has its entire package set is obviously going to be better than a weapon that has only one piece.

This is just a consequence of progression systems locking stuff.


Do you think this is a good idea or feature?

In BF1, I figured out what I wanted my gun to do and chose the closest variant. In BF4 I chose a decent starter weapon and customized it so that my F2000 was even more pronounced in it's strengths. That took some time as well, but I never felt underpowered with the base weapons. In BFV I, taking the suomi as an example, I start with a weapon that has immense recoil, a high ROF and 20 rounds in the mag. I then have to spend, I'd say, two hours of gameplay if you are good and then I get a weapon that is very good at hipfire, has quicker aim, controllable recoil and 150% more ammo.

If you invest into the game or weapons at a later stage you will be up against T5 weapons and vehicles all the time, diminishing your chances. This is straight unfair design. A similar thing I can only recall for the jets in BF3 where you needed to unlock flares.

Judging by the really poor reactions of the community, I am pretty sure DICE will adjust it. But this will likely only mean that the horizontal recoil reduction will be moved to the other upgrade path. I'd rather have a system where you can choose freely hat you want so that you can really customize your weapon, but the bonuses should be as miniscule as in BF4 and the base weapon stats should be closer to the upgraded stats.


Yeah, while the progression perk/unlock system is good on paper, I have no doubt it will turn into a Battlefront II quagmire where the field is heavily slanted against anyone who didn't get the game at launch and grind for ages.

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Monday, September 24th 2018, 8:49pm

General thoughts:

1. For whatever reason, the beta didn't have the look and feel of an entirely "new" game, and I couldn’t shake thinking “This is a pretty decent expansion pack of BF1…”
2. Funny to see that even with an “anybody can revive anybody” feature, my revive rate didn’t seem to be any higher than in BF1… Even with teammates right next to me… Even with multiple teammates right next to me capping an uncontested area…
3. More than enough people have gone on endless “This doesn’t feel anything like WWII” –takes so I won’t add to them here, but DICE has to throw us a bone here, even if they just set the whole narrative up as alt-history WWII.
4. I know it’s beta, but holy damn the hit detection had a mind of it’s own
5. I’m not kidding – get rid of that stupid “only squad spawn in vehicles” –BS
6. And lose the awful squad-respawn format, too
7. I agree with Zormau, the UI for the beta was worlds worse than BF1, which I didn’t even think was possible.
8. While tank ammo reload is good in theory, the tank is way too slow and the spawn way too far to make it practical. Just install a 60-second mandatory cooldown for shells to be reloaded when they are all used and 20 for machine guns?
9. The V1 rocket is going to be cheese, mark my words
10. Either the new spotting system (especially recon spotting) is complete shit, or I’m not using it correctly at all…
11. I thought they were getting rid of random bullet deviation? Because I’m willing to swear it was still on when I tried to snipe a little and I couldn’t hit a stationary enemy at <100m with the xhairs right on him.
12. For the love of God please bring back building destruction.
13. The list goes on

Despite my complaints, I really did enjoy this much more than I enjoyed BF4 beta (which I decided not to buy at launch). I’m tempted to get it if the game gets tweaked for the better.