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  • "SotenTsukuyomi" started this thread

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Friday, September 7th 2018, 5:50pm

Differences between DMRs(Semi-Auto ARs) in BFV

Does anyone here have detailed information on the statistical difference between the Turner SMLE AR, Gewehr 43, ZH-29 sniper and the m1A1 carbine. As usual DICEs stat charts leave much to be desired.

I am assuming the m1a1 is a sks(bf3/bf4) equivalent in terms of general use but im attempting to grasp the ranged difference between the SMLE and the Gewehr for two shot headshot kill range and 1hs 1 body shot in more panic ranges(for a dmr). Depending on the statistical niche between the two weapons I may have specialized my gewehr incorrectly and I cant find a way to undo/reset the specialization tree which makes their nebulous stat augmentations that much worse.

I do hope DICE adds dmrs to the medic class as the rest of the class is similar to how I play bf4 with healing items and smoke for cover but the smg playstyle with its lack of range is not for me at all.

I use the qbu 88 a fair bit as my main dmr in bf4 28% hs/k% w/ 31% acc(used to be higher) and QBZ-95-1 28% hs/k% w/ 20% acc. so these are part of the factors that will make or break my enjoyment of the game and decide if I will purchase it.

thanks for info and input in advance.
~~~ Understanding is a three-edged sword. Your side, their side, and the truth. ~~~

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Friday, September 7th 2018, 6:35pm

My attempts to characterize at this point suggest the G43 is always 3 shots and the Turner is 3-4. Some video analysis suggests that a G43 with the trigger upgrade (left path on the tree) fires are the same rate as an unupgraded Turner. I dont know how much spread bonus you are giving up to gain the faster TTK with the G43.

The M1A1 I believe is 4-5 shots to kill, and so even a little worse than the SKS by some measure if I recall correctly.

I really dont think these statistics will make or break the game. Remember there will be many more DMRs likely in the release and through tides of war. The G43 is super satisfying right now as it is. Im sold, quite frankly.

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Friday, September 7th 2018, 7:30pm

BF4's SKS was a 3-4 shot kill. 43-34 damage - 4HK if you hit limbs at range, always 3HK to the chest (at range only without defensive).

The Turner has a surprisingly short 3HK range, decent effective rate of fire, passable hipfire with the mod, especially while crouching, but I'm pretty sure it goes down to only 25 or 26 damage- I've hit people four times at range for 90-some damage when hitting limbs. I've also gotten one headshot, one limbshot and a bodyshot (I think - may have been another limb) and NOT killed the enemy. It will sometimes be a 5HK apparently.

I still think that the Turner is an okay gun and decent fun to use. The problem is, though, that it's utterly outclassed at almost everything by the STG44, simply because that thing is way more lethal in cqc and has insane capabilities at range due to the nonexistent recoil in semi auto. It's far easier to just pop off ten STG rounds semi auto towards a distant target and be confident that six will hit than to shoot five with the Turner's far higher recoil and hope for the best. Then again, I've not tried the Turner with a scope yet.

The STG should have its recoil increased and the Turner and especially the M1A1 carbine need the STG's base hipfire.
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Of course, this ignores the non-constant cross-sectional first moment of area across the chest as well as non-constant material properties of the boob; it would be difficult to perform a more detailed analysis (as in, I'd have to have a shape function AND I'd need to derive a function for elastic modulus as a function of lateral breast coordinate) but whatever. It's 2am and I'm lazy.


I always believed science should be very hands on experience.

You should also answer this question I had posed in that thread: Would you be willing to pay your surgeon more if he was going to use a chainsaw for the opening incision of surgery? Clearly using a chainsaw isn't truly suited for surgery but that doesn't really matter. If he's "skilled" enough to be able to use the wrong tools of the trade, he should be rewarded for that skill right?


  • "SotenTsukuyomi" started this thread

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Friday, September 7th 2018, 11:40pm

My attempts to characterize at this point suggest the G43 is always 3 shots and the Turner is 3-4. Some video analysis suggests that a G43 with the trigger upgrade (left path on the tree) fires are the same rate as an unupgraded Turner. I dont know how much spread bonus you are giving up to gain the faster TTK with the G43.

The M1A1 I believe is 4-5 shots to kill, and so even a little worse than the SKS by some measure if I recall correctly.

I really dont think these statistics will make or break the game. Remember there will be many more DMRs likely in the release and through tides of war. The G43 is super satisfying right now as it is. Im sold, quite frankly.
The rpm increase was somewhat noticeable and helped a bit with the g43 in cqb. The G43 is fairly solid and I pretty much gave up on the automatic rifle as soon as I unlocked it. It is reliable enough to countersnipe and tap out headshots. I started the mobility side of the skill tree thinking it was like borderlands and I could mix and match only to find out you couldnt or I would have chosen the "sniper" branch.

The issue for me at the moment is that the gun is on the wrong class and the augmentation of weapons to fill player defined niches is minimal. I would be happy playing with it as a medic since thats the role I play in bf4 but medics use smgs which completely puts me off the class as a marksman type player.

BF4's SKS was a 3-4 shot kill. 43-34 damage - 4HK if you hit limbs at range, always 3HK to the chest (at range only without defensive).

The Turner has a surprisingly short 3HK range, decent effective rate of fire, passable hipfire with the mod, especially while crouching, but I'm pretty sure it goes down to only 25 or 26 damage- I've hit people four times at range for 90-some damage when hitting limbs. I've also gotten one headshot, one limbshot and a bodyshot (I think - may have been another limb) and NOT killed the enemy. It will sometimes be a 5HK apparently.

I still think that the Turner is an okay gun and decent fun to use. The problem is, though, that it's utterly outclassed at almost everything by the STG44, simply because that thing is way more lethal in cqc and has insane capabilities at range due to the nonexistent recoil in semi auto. It's far easier to just pop off ten STG rounds semi auto towards a distant target and be confident that six will hit than to shoot five with the Turner's far higher recoil and hope for the best. Then again, I've not tried the Turner with a scope yet.

The STG should have its recoil increased and the Turner and especially the M1A1 carbine need the STG's base hipfire.
I used the sks briefly but switched to the qbu88 for its increased ranged performance. Since I headshot targets regularly the min damage is less of a hindrance although sometimes limb shots are unavoidable when snap shotting moving targets at range. I agree the STG needs a recoil nerf at this point. Maybe once they increase the weapon pool they will reduce its overall effectiveness. For many players the precision ARs would be too demanding and thats 3/4 of the weapons selection for the class in the beta.

Ok I think I will ignore the Turner and see how the ZH plays(unlocked last game) and spend my point on that if I like it. I was told that it doesnt even OSHK at close range despite being a recon dmr. Is dice still afraid of dmrs dominating the game and implemented another subpar SR338 type weapon?

EDIT

So far I am liking the ZH but havent gotten into enough cqb fight with it to try and headshot things at close range. 2 body shot out to maybe a 3 shot at extreme range, but since at least one is a headshot for me I havent seen a 3 shot yet.

EDIT 2

Upgrade that to loving it. Its feels like (relative to gun balance) what the sr338 should have been. No 1shs kill up close but I can easily work around that since its two shots into the 70m+ range and a 1shk on any enemy at the 1st or lower stage of max hp degradation. I havent even upgraded it at all and it performs well at all reasonable ranges even against automatics under 20m if you dont miss. Its almost too easy at times since there is no bf3 style multipliers keeping you honest on limb shots as far as I have seen.

I have also found out that you must purchase multiple copies of a weapon to have a weapon with a different skill branch. It makes each weapon its own entity to buy upgrades for rather than a singular weapon with attachments you modify at will. I have a qcb variant using the left branch and im working on my sniper variant on the right branch.

EDIT 3

In theory you have to purchase new weapons but in practice, as I learned the hard way, duplicate weapons disappear after you restart the game so whatever upgrade path you choose first is what you have for the rest of the beta.
~~~ Understanding is a three-edged sword. Your side, their side, and the truth. ~~~

This post has been edited 7 times, last edit by "SotenTsukuyomi" (Sep 9th 2018, 3:59am)


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Sunday, September 9th 2018, 12:09am

ZH-29 fires fast enough that players have no idea where you are shooting them from. In the time it takes for players to line up a headshot, the ZH-29 has already landed 2 bodyshots.

I've gotten 30+ kills with single digit deaths with it simply because of that. Unless I royally mess up my shots, people don't ever know what hit them and I can farm them pretty much endlessly.

I only die because A) I am forced to redeploy for more ammo or B) I get killed trying to grab ammo.
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  • "SotenTsukuyomi" started this thread

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Sunday, September 9th 2018, 4:02am

ZH-29 fires fast enough that players have no idea where you are shooting them from. In the time it takes for players to line up a headshot, the ZH-29 has already landed 2 bodyshots.

I've gotten 30+ kills with single digit deaths with it simply because of that. Unless I royally mess up my shots, people don't ever know what hit them and I can farm them pretty much endlessly.

I only die because A) I am forced to redeploy for more ammo or B) I get killed trying to grab ammo.
Its really nice and almost too powerful for double tapping targets since there is no strict damage difference in body shots for limbs. I had just finished fully upgrading a second one following the sniper path on the right side and using it with the bipod is absurdly quick kills at range.

Unfortunately since it was my second ZH-29 the game decided to delete it after I restarted the game. So basically DICE doesnt have a fundamental aspect of weapon usage ready in the beta. Since they didnt add a "respec" option and you cant delete the gun you dont want, you are basically stuck with whatever your first choice of upgrades for the rest of the beta as far as I can tell. This has been the second time a weapon has disappear for me, with the first being a blank weapon I assumed they deleted because it had nothing upgraded at all.

I would think weapon customization would be one of the big things they would get to work properly for a beta. Or do they expect most players to not even know they exist, since many people were asking what I was talking about when I asked about "upgrades" and second weapons disappearing in chat.

EDIT

My now 4th ZH-29 is still in my inventory from one day to the next. So im guessing it was a unknown bug that ate my 2nd(blank) and 3rd(fully upgraded) rifles. I hope it stick around since im mainly still playing the beta for the long ranged play.
~~~ Understanding is a three-edged sword. Your side, their side, and the truth. ~~~

This post has been edited 4 times, last edit by "SotenTsukuyomi" (Sep 9th 2018, 8:20pm)