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Nick 30075

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Saturday, June 16th 2018, 11:53pm

Memes aside, women in violent games is the gender equivalent of whitewashing. I think that it's stupid to care either way.
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I'm basically just a degenerate weeb who doesn't post much nowadays.

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You're fedorable :love:

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I have the highest postcount. Nick doesn't count.

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23:44 *** Lt_Col_Jesus quit (Quit: off to murder the public at large).

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... fuck. Damn you hindsight!

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ViperFTW: THIS
ViperFTW: AS
ViperFTW: MY
ViperFTW: FUUUUCKING SOUNDTRACK :DDDD
(the album in question)


Darktan13

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Saturday, June 16th 2018, 11:58pm

2020 hasn't happened yet, but 2014 has, where BF3 is set.

2020 however is so far away from now, the current unmountable railguns too impractical for US warships will be scaled down made man portable and enter active service. and Icicles will become standard issue replacements for the combat knife.

Quoted from "J0hn-Stuart-Mill"

EMPOWER EMPOWER EMPOWER

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Sunday, June 17th 2018, 6:03am

Did this guy just compare weapon variety in a game meant to be fun with Black Gender Fluid Handicappable Nazis?
You have just read a Post by The World Champion and now feel smarter for doing so.
-------
Cham·pi·on
noun \ˈcham-pē-ən\

1 : Warrior, Fighter
2 : a militant advocate or defender <a champion of civil rights>
3 : one that does battle for another's rights or honor <God will raise me up a champion — Sir Walter Scott>
4 : a winner of first prize or first place in competition; also : one who shows marked superiority <The champion of the World>

VincentNZ

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Sunday, June 17th 2018, 10:58am

2020 hasn't happened yet, but 2014 has, where BF3 is set.

2020 however is so far away from now, the current unmountable railguns too impractical for US warships will be scaled down made man portable and enter active service. and Icicles will become standard issue replacements for the combat knife.


Well, the Jackhammer was basically fan service for BF2 players, but yeah it never came out of prototype status.

The conflict is still fictional, what do you actually know about world conflicts? Is it plausible? Do players know how military contracting works, what is currently in development, service, has been scrapped etc.? Do players know about the second WWII, what it was about, where it was fought, when it was fought?

Darktan13

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Sunday, June 17th 2018, 9:46pm

women in violent games is the gender equivalent of whitewashing.


Explain yourself.

Quoted from "J0hn-Stuart-Mill"

EMPOWER EMPOWER EMPOWER

Darktan13

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Sunday, June 17th 2018, 9:51pm

Well, the Jackhammer was basically fan service for BF2 players, but yeah it never came out of prototype status.

Did this guy just compare weapon variety in a game meant to be fun with Black Gender Fluid Handicappable Nazis?


So its fine to have weapon and vehicle variety by stretching to include unrealistic, prototype and paper only equipment as standard issue across a team, but nonwhite men and women are not fine to have, even though y'know, they actually exist and have served in various armed forces in various roles since the dawn of time?

The conflict is still fictional, what do you actually know about world conflicts? Is it plausible? Do players know how military contracting works, what is currently in development, service, has been scrapped etc.? Do players know about the second WWII, what it was about, where it was fought, when it was fought?


Yes, I do know. How is this relevant?

Quoted from "J0hn-Stuart-Mill"

EMPOWER EMPOWER EMPOWER

VincentNZ

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Sunday, June 17th 2018, 10:32pm

Well, the Jackhammer was basically fan service for BF2 players, but yeah it never came out of prototype status.

Did this guy just compare weapon variety in a game meant to be fun with Black Gender Fluid Handicappable Nazis?


So its fine to have weapon and vehicle variety by stretching to include unrealistic, prototype and paper only equipment as standard issue across a team, but nonwhite men and women are not fine to have, even though y'know, they actually exist and have served in various armed forces in various roles since the dawn of time?

The conflict is still fictional, what do you actually know about world conflicts? Is it plausible? Do players know how military contracting works, what is currently in development, service, has been scrapped etc.? Do players know about the second WWII, what it was about, where it was fought, when it was fought?


Yes, I do know. How is this relevant?


Come on, don't fool yourself. You know exactly what the point and the difference is.

Today women serve in combat roles. Today every background can serve in the military and in combat roles. So putting women or black people in BF3 and 4 is acceptable. Now, we were all taught in school, that certain races were naturally rather underrepresented in certain factions. Basically this was the whole point. Heck 90% of the blacks in the Army served in non-combat roles, women everywhere served as nurses, or in other assisting jobs. Valuable work, but non-combat roles nevertheless.

Everytime someone points out the general facts, they are greeted with the grotesque anecdotes and irrelevant statistics. "Mad Jack" Churchill probably had his nickname for a reason. The Korean guy in the Wehrmacht, probably had a crazy story to tell, too, and you will likely find a female spotlight operator that played an active combat role, you just have to dig deep enough. But is this really all that a developer wants to teach a player about this conflict? The game has an educational value, as well.

As for prototypes. They serve a gameplay purpose. Without stuff like the Hellriegel the game would be rather boring. I am sorry to say that a customization this deep, does not.

The only valid argument for having minorities is to create an understanding how bad the situation really was and this means you should tell their story. A female SOE agent, the black pilot from the 332d Fighter Group, the Navajo Code Talkers and a thousand other examples. You want to highlight a problem, tell us that African-Americans were treated like shit and that gender equality was something out of a nightmare. But, alas they try to make the obscure the standard for the simply reason of creating buzz around the game, while effectively doing nothing to raise awareness.

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Sunday, June 17th 2018, 10:36pm

Or, character customization has been a staple of video games for decades, and every player should be able to create an avatar that resembles themselves. Full stop.

But if this community is going to start sounding like the mess that is r/Battlefield, I'll have to seriously consider taking a break from it.
Who Enjoys, Wins

VincentNZ

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Monday, June 18th 2018, 12:17am

Or, character customization has been a staple of video games for decades, and every player should be able to create an avatar that resembles themselves. Full stop.

But if this community is going to start sounding like the mess that is r/Battlefield, I'll have to seriously consider taking a break from it.


Being able to represent oneself is a very recent thing. It evolved with better graphics and obviously with RPGs, where you created your own character anyway. The recent rise of character customization is not about that, though, it is solely enforced as mean to monetize a game.

That said, if I had a prosthetic arm, I would absolutely be happy if I could create a character like that. Same with all other character customization. It is a valid argument, if the reason is a proper representation, but it is playerside used as a tool to create something absurd and devside as a moneymaker. Any sort of social, cultural or political value is illusory, and this is the thing I critisise the most.

Combattants in WWII were of the nation's origin and male, all the examples used to justify are statistically irrelevant, albeit interesting, anecdotes. Why that was the case is someting that should be explored in the game. Or if you insist on the system and want to raise awareness, to a certain issue, be it equality or inclusion, you should dig deeper than a superficial monetized customization system. I am sure there are a thousand organisations that would really like to get the proceeds of the cosmetic purchases. To change minds there needs to be a little bit more than jumping on a bandwagon.

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Monday, June 18th 2018, 3:16am

In my opinion a large amount of the issue over BFV has been in the way that the response to the community has been handled. It is never a good idea to publicly dismiss the concerns of the consumer base and try to label opinions differently from the companies decisions as x,y, or z demonized concept. All they really did was stir the pot with their response.

Outside of that, those that were drawn to the game because of the touted historical accuracy/immersion have a right to complain about things that could potentially break that immersion when there is no gameplay/mechanic reason for it to be included. If the games setting was different, for instance in the future, or if historical accuracy or immersion was never even broached then the complaints would be irrelevant. You can not have full immersion within a historical context and simultaneously allow full customization based on the whims of the modern audiences aesthetic tastes. It can be balanced of course, but the extremes are mutually exclusive.

Now from a business perspective I can see the potential virtue signalling allowing EA/DICE to receive accolades and press attention in spheres they otherwise would not. This would potentially increase their penetration into the public consciousness without having to shell out money directly for promotion. Also the more robust the aesthetic customization, the greater revenue they can generate without delving into mechanic altering loot box schemes.

Overall I am on the fence regardless just due to how EA/DICE crafts games because of the changing of their target demographic and focusing on a more plug'n'play experience vs learning the ropes of a complex simulation. Also I do not agree with the choice of removing self hosted servers from the franchise while simultaneously not taking measures to ensure the best user experience in multilayer by having adequately placed servers. Once you have a representative of the game using buzzwords like "inclusive" and "diverse", while using anecdotes boiling down to "think of the children" you can tell what the public relations and design of the products are going to focus on. Again not saying anyone at dice actually believes any of it, but just saying that will be the PR and development mask.
~~~ Understanding is a three-edged sword. Your side, their side, and the truth. ~~~

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "SotenTsukuyomi" (Jun 18th 2018, 3:22am)