Quoted from "Novan Leon"

I can run around with a silenced assault rifle in pub games and rack up a 6:1 KD ratio without breaking a sweat. People just don't know how to deal with someone who doesn't show up on the minimap everytime they start shooting, which is what I mean when I say these overpowered spotting mechanics are dumbing down the game experience for new players. It removes the necessity for mindgames and thinking in the moment and replaces it with waiting for the game to do your work for you.

Nah I do not see that. Yeah we can run around with a Silencer and with an aggressive motion sensor and T-UGS, as well as the shadow perk and get a very high K/D. The effect is just not measurable, not even for oneself. Whereas playing with other perks as an Assault with a compensator you get direct feedback because your weapon works better, you can heal directly etc., you get my drift.
You contradict yourself a bit, too, when you say that players do not know how to deal with players who do not show up on the minimap. These players do not play with the minimap at all, only a minority actively use it, and the gadgets shield you from the better players. Most Battlefielders will just go where they want to with no further tactical approach. They gave a target, be it objective or enemy and they will go for it.
If you take away 2D spotting, even if you do it in the way BF1 handled it, you take away an opportunity for players that react in a deeper manner. I mean you have seen the minimap in the trailer, right? And there are enemies spotted, seemingly when they are right on you, but other than that the minimap is so minimalistic that a tactical approach is basically impossible.

All this paired with very likely the same map layouts and it seems that the game is more about the hard aiming skills instead of the soft tactical skillset.

Play the world around you, not the UI.

I wish my eyesight was good enough to not have to rely on 3D spots.

Quoted from "BleedingUranium"

Play the world around you, not the UI.

Yeah, right. You know how the world looks in BF1, we've been through this several times. It is very hard even on shorter distances thanks to the 50 Shades of Gray approach. Sound is also not something very reliable as we found out in BF1. In conclusion it is really not enough just to rely on your eyesight especially with only limited sight options. Also it is gear dependent. I play on a 27" monitor, I guess that is on the high end and still have troubles.

Also I guess BFV is going to focus a lot on the optics, which make identifying enemies even harder, unless people find ways to workaround it through settings. In PUBG players used a third party programme that made the colour contrast more distinctive and made spotting enemies way easier. I personally ran around with the korean version, which has blue blood that is way more visible.

By the way you make it sound as if spotting was only ever used with a direct sightline, but the important bits are the side effects of spotted enemies, which is that they appear on the minimap for other players, a teamplay action. Also how are you supposed to traverse a huge map tactically without any intel? Removing or scaling down spotting to me is just a way to decrease teamplay, altering an action that has been so natural and instinctive for seven years now. At least we still get 20 points for squadspawns.

Sorry just from the trailer and the info we know so far, the game is about being the best in moving your mouse. But if the HUD is indeed a problem maybe the introduction of a HC mode is interesting for purists. Or a tactical mode with enhanced HUD and 2D/3D spotting and a useful minimap could be implemented.

Quoted from "Novan Leon"

I can run around with a silenced assault rifle in pub games and rack up a 6:1 KD ratio without breaking a sweat. People just don't know how to deal with someone who doesn't show up on the minimap everytime they start shooting, which is what I mean when I say these overpowered spotting mechanics are dumbing down the game experience for new players. It removes the necessity for mindgames and thinking in the moment and replaces it with waiting for the game to do your work for you.

1) I don't believe you.

2) You're on the wrong forum if you think anyone cares about your arguments based on your unverifiable claims of awesomeness. I cannot magically not-quite triple my KDR by slapping a silencer on a gun, so either I'm bad at BF, of you're full of it.

3) Oh look, marching out the "muh casual" line. How...predictable.

Quoted

Unless you including bleeding-edge tech which isn't in mass deployment, there is no tactical equivalent to the minimap or 3D spotting. Not even close. Making callouts or using infrared or laser targeting is essentially the extent of what's available to most ordinary soldiers.

Try again. Look at what you said:

Quoted

IRL Battlefield intelligence is more strategic than tactical, and by introducing it to the tactical side of the game you create these sort of "metagames" where it's more about spotting your opponent than actually engaging the enemy in gunplay.

Let me try again: by stating this, you have made it painfully evident that you don't have the faintest clue what you are talking about IRL, and that you lack even a basic understanding of what "strategic" and "tactical" means.

No, IRL doesn't have magical 3D spotting. But BF is a game. It uses game abstractions. Arbitrarily invoking realism to argue that you don't like something is bullshit. We don't have magical gizmos that necromancy a guy after he's been shot in the chest by a tank shell. We don't have health bars. Hell, humans don't move and fight and shoot remotely anything near what is portrayed in BF.

You can't just trot out realism in what amounts to an abstract war-arcade game.

Also, BF4/BF1 is definitely not more about spotting than shooting, this is hyperbolic/exaggerated to the point of ridiculousness.

Quoted from "VincentNZ"

Yeah, right. You know how the world looks in BF1, we've been through this several times. It is very hard even on shorter distances thanks to the 50 Shades of Gray approach.

...that's not an argument against anything. Part of the intent is for you to have to actually see and identify your targets, and them blending only emphasizes this. It's sort of the whole idea. This is like arguing running out of ammo is bad game design, because it's detrimental to you. Of course it is, it's supposed to be.

Quoted

In PUBG players used a third party programme that made the colour contrast more distinctive and made spotting enemies way easier. I personally ran around with the korean version, which has blue blood that is way more visible.

Third party tools used to gain an advantage? There's a term for that, it's on the tip of my- Oh right, cheating.

A more standard example is raising your brightness in dark maps, which is still cheating. The only reason it's not enforced or given more attention is because, at present, there are no actual ways to detect and prevent it, so it just becomes accepted that some people will cheat. The devs write it off as unavoidable, and ultimately not a big deal for the majority of the population.

Quoted

By the way you make it sound as if spotting was only ever used with a direct sightline, but the important bits are the side effects of spotted enemies, which is that they appear on the minimap for other players, a teamplay action. Also how are you supposed to traverse a huge map tactically without any intel? Removing or scaling down spotting to me is just a way to decrease teamplay, altering an action that has been so natural and instinctive for seven years now. At least we still get 20 points for squadspawns.

There are two problems with this. First is, as I've said, sending this much information to teammates is excessive and too powerful. There is simply too much precision and immediacy to it. If I see an enemy in a windmill, I can tell my teammates "Sniper in the windmill", but they still have to actually look and find exactly where he is in the windmill themselves. I certainly cannot constantly update them with exact information in real time over many seconds. This ensures that they're working off intel to do the work themselves, rather than having everything handed to them, removing any meaningful thinking, prediction, deduction, or decision-making.

Second thing is that "it's teamplay" is not a catch-all defence for any mechanic that aides team members. Just because something is "teamplay" doesn't mean it's a good, healthy mechanic.

You can't shoot downed players because "war crimes".


I'm sure there's something that actually makes sense here gameplay wise and that it's a better solution to Metro / Locker revive lemmings but I can't seem to grasp it. Care to explain?


Also I just totally posted this to compliment BleedingUranium's Darjeeling picture, best grill. Also those eyes are hypnotizing.

Quoted from "Riesig"

You can't shoot downed players because "war crimes".

I'm sure there's something that actually makes sense here gameplay wise and that it's a better solution to Metro / Locker revive lemmings but I can't seem to grasp it. Care to explain?

The gameplay reason is because being able to shoot downed people would, in practice, simply mean everyone has more HP and revives would not exist.

Quoted

Also I just totally posted this to compliment BleedingUranium's Darjeeling picture, best grill. Also those eyes are hypnotizing.

I know, right? She's also my birthday buddy. I'm so excited for the Churchill in BFV! I'll be building it exactly like hers.

I actually had saved yours a while back to look up (and forgot to), but now that I tried I can't find a match (I think because it's cropped). Who is she? I want to say either a Witch or someone from KanColle.

It's probably Gertrud Barkhorn


Thread derailment complete, this is now an animu waifu thread. j/k




Halftracks and Kettenkrads should be able to mount AA and field guns for the lulz.

Quoted from "Riesig"

It's probably Gertrud Barkhorn

Thread derailment complete, this is now an animu waifu thread. j/k

You avatar is definitely not Gertrud Barkhorn (who is ), though to spin that into something relevant, I hope the MG42 has a barrel change animation.

Quoted

Halftracks and Kettenkrads should be able to mount AA and field guns for the lulz.

That would be hilarious any amazing. Really though, just being able to tow in general is going to be a huge game-changer.