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Saturday, May 26th 2018, 12:20am

With BFV removing 3D spotting and having extensive cosmetic customization, we can expect that tryhards will try to make their soldiers look as much like a nondistinct grey blob as possible, while noobs will go into battle wearing a pink beret and wonder why they keep getting sniped.
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Saturday, May 26th 2018, 12:41am

With BFV removing 3D spotting and having extensive cosmetic customization, we can expect that tryhards will try to make their soldiers look as much like a nondistinct grey blob as possible, while noobs will go into battle wearing a pink beret and wonder why they keep getting sniped.


I hope that's the case, and really it would make every camp happy. Making appearance a practical choice that does actually impact gameplay is definitely good.
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VincentNZ

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Saturday, May 26th 2018, 1:01am

With BFV removing 3D spotting and having extensive cosmetic customization, we can expect that tryhards will try to make their soldiers look as much like a nondistinct grey blob as possible, while noobs will go into battle wearing a pink beret and wonder why they keep getting sniped.


I hope that's the case, and really it would make every camp happy. Making appearance a practical choice that does actually impact gameplay is definitely good.


Despite the obvious chance to get mighty bucks by selling the Village People Battlepack, I strongly doubt they will go full Fortnite on this. We have only seen wildly painted leather jackets as the emotional fashion outcry of the GIs. In any case, all dark colours will grey out really fast. Take a look at the crazy vehicle camos of BF4. I do not think that making haute-couture a practical choice is a good idea. If you are fighting in the desert, the default desert camo should be used. Choose your style of helmet, goggles or a variety of hats if you must, heck put an Edelweiß in your button hole, but the colour scheme should bloody well be the colour of sand/rock.

@Novan Leon
DICE already created such a game, BF1 has, while visually stunning, an absolutely horrid visual style, gameplay wise. I like desaturated looks and also really liked the blue/yellow tint of BF3, but BF1 is an absolute mess. The colour range is indeed a problem here, mostly because each map has no contrast. It is in one shade of grey/brown. Add in visual effects like bright outsides and dark insides blinding you as well as mostly no optics and you are basically do not know ehether you are looking at an enemy or a compost pile.

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Saturday, May 26th 2018, 1:09am

Despite the obvious chance to get mighty bucks by selling the Village People Battlepack, I strongly doubt they will go full Fortnite on this. We have only seen wildly painted leather jackets as the emotional fashion outcry of the GIs. In any case, all dark colours will grey out really fast. Take a look at the crazy vehicle camos of BF4. I do not think that making haute-couture a practical choice is a good idea. If you are fighting in the desert, the default desert camo should be used. Choose your style of helmet, goggles or a variety of hats if you must, heck put an Edelweiß in your button hole, but the colour scheme should bloody well be the colour of sand/rock.


It's up to players to choose whether they want to blend in or want to stand out, and that's the best way to handle that.


Quoted

DICE already created such a game, BF1 has, while visually stunning, an absolutely horrid visual style, gameplay wise. I like desaturated looks and also really liked the blue/yellow tint of BF3, but BF1 is an absolute mess. The colour range is indeed a problem here, mostly because each map has no contrast. It is in one shade of grey/brown. Add in visual effects like bright outsides and dark insides blinding you as well as mostly no optics and you are basically do not know ehether you are looking at an enemy or a compost pile.


Good thing BFV is ditching the overused desaturated FPS look then, and has far more vibrant and varied colours.
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Riesig

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Saturday, May 26th 2018, 7:10am

Anyone here knows about the large explosion knockback effect? Does it totally take control away from the player?


What constitutes a large explosion? Will we get silly stun lock moments when inside consecutive big explosions?
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Saturday, May 26th 2018, 7:27am

Anyone here knows about the large explosion knockback effect? Does it totally take control away from the player?


What constitutes a large explosion? Will we get silly stun lock moments when inside consecutive big explosions?


We don't know for sure, but likely very specific and uncommon things like V1 and Sturmtiger, which are both squad call-ins. I doubt anything you can normally spawn with can do this.

Though on the subject of impairment, I hope there's a subclass that specializes in these sorts of debuffs, things that slow you down, knock you over, blind you, and so on. Traps and the like.
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Tuesday, May 29th 2018, 4:44pm

Having to actually pick out the location of a target 100% of the time, versus being able to engage aiming cues simply makes for a very different game. I do not think that it is a fair position to demand that the entire direction of a game be directed by catering to a specific disability.

People with motor issues are basically barred from any sort of real-time gaming and there is little demand to make full accommodation because FPS or RTS games wouldn't be meaningful games otherwise.

I don't think removal of 3D spotting in BF is an overall good decision for gameplay reasons though. 3D/map spotting is about creating a impactful in game representation of the "fight for information". Removing that basically means that there is no fight for information beyond VOIP calls. And VOIP is massively under-used.

Good compromises would have been restricting it to scout gadgets, making it far less effective when LOS was broken, etc.

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Tuesday, May 29th 2018, 6:36pm

I will agree about the gameplay part.

If they wanted to nerf spotting, they should have taken cues from MGO3 and gave information warfare its missing depth.

Right now its "overpowered" nature comes from the fact there is almost nothing you can do against it.

Add in gadgets like the Cardboard Box and Decoys that turn a team's own spots against them and we get cooler gameplay in my opinion.



I also don't think FPS/RTS require a visual exam to be meaningful.

Otherwise any one of those games that have had easily identifiable models to shoot at would be meaningless.
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Tuesday, May 29th 2018, 7:13pm


I also don't think FPS/RTS require a visual exam to be meaningful.

Otherwise any one of those games that have had easily identifiable models to shoot at would be meaningless.


I think that a military-themed game that entirely omits the concept of concealment, target identification and even tactical reconnaissance is really missing a massively important gameplay element. Concealment and detection is one of the biggest aspects of warfighting, and it is something that should have a meaningfully abstracted mechanic in any wargame of any sort. Even silly fantasy ones.

3D spotting as implemented in BF, especially in the pre-present context where you don't have any 4C technology, completely trivializes concealment/detection.

It's not a "visual" exam. It's about what sort of gameplay you want. I'm all for de-trivializing concealment/detection. I don't think removal of 3D spotting is the best way to do it, but it certainly needs to be massively clawed back beyond just adding jamming/spoofing. It also just needed to be straight up nerfed.

The visual exam analogy is equivalent to saying that 1v1 engagements are a motor skill exam. They are, but it's not a bad thing.

NoctyrneSAGA

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Tuesday, May 29th 2018, 7:18pm


I also don't think FPS/RTS require a visual exam to be meaningful.

Otherwise any one of those games that have had easily identifiable models to shoot at would be meaningless.


I think that a military-themed game that entirely omits the concept of concealment, target identification and even tactical reconnaissance is really missing a massively important gameplay element. Concealment and detection is one of the biggest aspects of warfighting, and it is something that should have a meaningfully abstracted mechanic in any wargame of any sort. Even silly fantasy ones.

3D spotting as implemented in BF, especially in the pre-present context where you don't have any 4C technology, completely trivializes concealment/detection.

It's not a "visual" exam. It's about what sort of gameplay you want. I'm all for de-trivializing concealment/detection. I don't think removal of 3D spotting is the best way to do it, but it certainly needs to be massively clawed back beyond just adding jamming/spoofing. It also just needed to be straight up nerfed.

The visual exam analogy is equivalent to saying that 1v1 engagements are a motor skill exam. They are, but it's not a bad thing.


This is why I've advocated for Passive Spotting.

It eliminates the enemy detector Q Spam and makes spotting someone require that you realize they were there in the first place.

I have no problem with making spots require this effort to work because one guy having good vision is able to inform other teammates this way and everyone reaps the benefit.

Even if I don't pass the vision exam, a teammate that did can still help me out.
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Passive Spotting is the future!

"Skill" may indeed be the most magical of words. Chant it well enough and any desire can be yours.

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