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Riesig

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21

Friday, May 25th 2018, 3:48am

I wonder if these changes can put an end to 600+ to even 3000+ ticket lemmingfests. And then you'll see that the total amount of revives per round is abysmal.



But from what I can imagine, even if people get the shock paddles, they still won't revive
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Friday, May 25th 2018, 3:53am

I wonder if these changes can put an end to 600+ to even 3000+ ticket lemmingfests. And then you'll see that the total amount of revives per round is abysmal.

But from what I can imagine, even if people get the shock paddles, they still won't revive


Shitty revives that result in a quick second death are not meaningful. You would/should expect the average KDR of a well designed game to be about 1.X.

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Friday, May 25th 2018, 3:57am

The vehicle-enter animation is useless and glitchy. It didn't bring anything to the gameplay experience and had poor fidelity with what the server is/was actually doing. It was basically veneer. The field gun animation is nice, but really its just a pretty way of showing you a timer, and that's fine.

At a fundamental level games are an abstraction, some moreso than others. They require concessions to make a game a game. Animations reducing abstraction don't actually translate to a better game.


Something tells me there's really no point in arguing this; that sort of nihilistic/purely-technical philosophy doesn't really apply very well to, well to most things, but not games like this. I would say it's not a game designed for that mindset, but I'm not really sure of a game that is. Chess, maybe?

It sounds like you're trying to argue the animations and physicality are somehow a detriment to gameplay, when they're actually the whole idea. The gameplay results these actions bring is the gameplay that's intended; it's the intent, not some side effect.
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Friday, May 25th 2018, 4:15am

The vehicle-enter animation is useless and glitchy. It didn't bring anything to the gameplay experience and had poor fidelity with what the server is/was actually doing. It was basically veneer. The field gun animation is nice, but really its just a pretty way of showing you a timer, and that's fine.

At a fundamental level games are an abstraction, some moreso than others. They require concessions to make a game a game. Animations reducing abstraction don't actually translate to a better game.


Something tells me there's really no point in arguing this; that sort of nihilistic/purely-technical philosophy doesn't really apply very well to, well to most things, but not games like this. I would say it's not a game designed for that mindset, but I'm not really sure of a game that is. Chess, maybe?

It sounds like you're trying to argue the animations and physicality are somehow a detriment to gameplay, when they're actually the whole idea. The gameplay results these actions bring is the gameplay that's intended; it's the intent, not some side effect.


No what I'm saying is that animations are not intrinsically good. They can be well done: eg reload animation in lieu of reload timer/UI icon, or they can be done poorly: eg vehicle animations where the animation is desynched from the player state in the game.

Vaulting and the attached animations have been a dumpster fire since implementation. And now they are adding a quicktime action component to them. Great. :rolleyes:

I am in no way excited for new animations because they've been quite the mixed bag, past experience informs opinion.

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Friday, May 25th 2018, 4:28am

No what I'm saying is that animations are not intrinsically good. They can be well done: eg reload animation in lieu of reload timer/UI icon, or they can be done poorly: eg vehicle animations where the animation is desynched from the player state in the game.


That something can be done poorly isn't an argument against a concept. Anything can be done poorly.
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Friday, May 25th 2018, 4:42am

No what I'm saying is that animations are not intrinsically good. They can be well done: eg reload animation in lieu of reload timer/UI icon, or they can be done poorly: eg vehicle animations where the animation is desynched from the player state in the game.


That something can be done poorly isn't an argument against a concept. Anything can be done poorly.


It absolutely is an argument for cautioning excitement about it.

It is doubly relevant when the parties have a track record of previously poor implementations after several iterations of similar games with the same engine.

Being excited about new animations is pure hype train-ing. This is the antidote.

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Friday, May 25th 2018, 5:06am

It absolutely is an argument for cautioning excitement about it.

It is doubly relevant when the parties have a track record of previously poor implementations after several iterations of similar games with the same engine.

Being excited about new animations is pure hype train-ing. This is the antidote.


Seeing as I disagree that the things you mentioned are bad, I'm perfectly content to be excited about all of this. What we have now is fantastic, and everything in BFV sounds like a straight upgrade.
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28

Friday, May 25th 2018, 5:24am

If they're going to do vehicle animations for entering again, I sure hope they don't forget the ones for leaving as well.
TL;DW summary:

  • Attrition system is designed to stop "spawn in, die, respawn, die"
  • Still working on suppression
  • 3D spotting removed, they want you to "rest your finger on the trigger, not the q button, look at the world"
  • One of the main designs of fortification is for squads to roll in and capture a point, then hunker down together and defend it quickly
  • Director looking for feedback if enemies should also be dropping health as well as ammo, still WIP. Only focusing on ammo for now
  • Grenades can be thrown back, shot out of the air. Nothing planned for rolling grenades yet
  • New recoil system minimizing spread is part of the new game direction into interacting with the world. "If you're pointing a weapon at someone's head and shoot, the game shouldn't tell you that you missed because of spread." Game director believes this raises the skill ceiling for mastering weapons, every weapon will have predictable recoil pattern built in. VISUAL RECOIL COMPLETELY GONE.
  • For example, the MG42 in the video "is a burst weapon because the first initial bullets are controlled and you'll know how they react. But after that, you're going to see more kick, you're going to see the weapon moving more and you'll think, 'Hmm, this is a burst fire weapon, do I want to use burst fire weapons?'"
  • Didn't specify yet if bullets are coming out of the gun barrel or center of the screen
  • Didn't confirm if bayonets are in like how they are in BF1.
  • Will not comment on sweet spots coming back into the game or not.
  • You'll get hitmarkers for wallbanging someone, just like shooting him regularly. jackfrags mentioned on the abuseability of this, director responded that they can always return back to this.
  • Still haven't decided what material LMGs will be able to penetrate, but will be based on "common sense" e.g. it'll go through wood, but not thick metal
  • Addresses concerns that the new animation system for player models could throw people off as they try to shoot them. Up for discussion on whether the new animations will play for teammates only or for everyone, still exploring this phase
  • No comment on dedicated servers or RSP yet
  • Said to stay tuned for EA Play when it comes to details of melee combat
  • Well aware of dolphin diving from BF2, will make sure it's not abuseable in any form
  • They wanted to "push innovation broadly" and did that intentionally through game design, hence all the gameplay design changes
  • Medic reviving will be differentiated from regular reviving by doing them much faster, especially in combat, to his entire team. Regular reviving can be only done within a squad
  • They don't want to make the animations too much of a hindrance in gameplay, went through several iterations of revive animations. "Gameplay comes first". Can cancel out of revive at any time, can look around during
  • People can call out for help when killed by raising their arm and shouting, teammates will see and hear it. Can't shoot players in this state. Devs still haven't decided if they want enemies to also see this as well, aware of the impact it can have on gameplay
  • If asked to describe BFV in three(ish) words, "Immersive, Tactical/Strategic/Squadplay, Never seen (parts of war)"

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Friday, May 25th 2018, 5:26am

It absolutely is an argument for cautioning excitement about it.

It is doubly relevant when the parties have a track record of previously poor implementations after several iterations of similar games with the same engine.

Being excited about new animations is pure hype train-ing. This is the antidote.


Seeing as I disagree that the things you mentioned are bad, I'm perfectly content to be excited about all of this. What we have now is fantastic, and everything in BFV sounds like a straight upgrade.


Wow.

We have nothing except a tentative list of features that may or not make it into a game that is still 4 months out. We have no idea of the fidelity, quality or performance of any of these changes because there is no meangifully availlable demo/playable version.

Your excitement is irrelevant. We could also be arbitrarily pessimistic and say this title will lead to franchise death akin to what COD is going through.

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30

Friday, May 25th 2018, 5:36am



New JackFrags interview with Design Director Dan Berlin.
TL;DW summary


My reading between the lines of the interview is they actually have no idea how to implement these new animations and how to compromise between gameplay, fidelity and, animation aesthetics. They are clearly still in the experimenting phase on an overall tight dev cycle.

Sounds like an experimental shit show. Actually their entire philosophy of "broad innovation" sounds like they are creating an experimental title and asking people to pay AAA price for it.

Maybe I'm pessimistic, but nothing I've heard so far speaks confidently that we are going to get something well polished on D-day. Hope I'm wrong, but BF4 especially, and BF1 to a lesser extend suggest otherwise.