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NoctyrneSAGA

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191

Tuesday, July 10th 2018, 8:21pm

Timer: the suppression effect does not gradually reduce over time. Instead it goes from 100% to 0% almost instantly after a couple of seconds of not being fired at.



Suppression Decay can be tuned to slowly fall off given the decay fields. It's just tuned to be instant after a delay following BF4.
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Passive Spotting is the future!

With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


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192

Wednesday, July 11th 2018, 4:54am

What I am pointing out is that it becomes useful only against bad players and has no use against good players.


Yeah, that's sort of exactly what a skill-based mechanic is supposed to be, that's how it works. Better players can make use of or counter a given thing, that's what denotes them as being more skilled than those who cannot do so at all or as well.


Quoted

You are creating literally the opposite of a blue shell; this mechanic makes the poor poorer in place of something that affects all players of all skill levels.


Yes, that's how widening a skillgap works.
Who Enjoys, Wins

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193

Wednesday, July 11th 2018, 3:53pm

Yeah but if one thinks about it, it is a rather stupid argument that DICE makes and a clear situation of the players not really knowing what they want.

Also setting aside that "learnable" recoil patterns are rather stupid from an authentic POV, they of course work in the small environments of CS:GO and R6. When all your engagements happen at 20m and below, you do not need spread, you also do not need 3D spotting or suppression etc. because the scale of these games is ridiculously low compared to compared to a BF game, yet players do not see that either. They see a working system in one game and want to transition 100% to another game without thinking one step more.

Yes that's basically what I was trying to insinuate with reference to Dunning-Kruger and the quotation marks.

The omission of spread combined with learnable recoil also basically blows "hard" balancing out of the water, as there will be a mathematically best gun for all purposes. It only leaves "soft" balancing through giving weapons peculiar attributes that only apply under certain circumstances (e.g. "can only ADS when bipoded", or "has excellent hipfire", "can suppress enemies *really really* well") as well as the asinine idea of making the objectively best guns "harder to use" - you know, because players who are already great need to be able to stand another league above because only they can use the best tools.

From what I can see on R6S balancing is basically irrelevant - rate of fire wins, simply because accidental or "roughly aimed spray" headshots become more likely.

Enabling only the best players to use the best tools is terrible game design in my opinion.
Zormau - Battlelog / Battlefield 4

Memorable quotes not taken yet:


Of course, this ignores the non-constant cross-sectional first moment of area across the chest as well as non-constant material properties of the boob; it would be difficult to perform a more detailed analysis (as in, I'd have to have a shape function AND I'd need to derive a function for elastic modulus as a function of lateral breast coordinate) but whatever. It's 2am and I'm lazy.


I always believed science should be very hands on experience.

You should also answer this question I had posed in that thread: Would you be willing to pay your surgeon more if he was going to use a chainsaw for the opening incision of surgery? Clearly using a chainsaw isn't truly suited for surgery but that doesn't really matter. If he's "skilled" enough to be able to use the wrong tools of the trade, he should be rewarded for that skill right?


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194

Thursday, July 12th 2018, 9:31am

You do realise that people already used "mathematically best guns" like remington 8 variants, BAR, or model 10-A hunter, right?

Plus weapons in BFV were still aggressively range locked so Erma EMP was useless long range, and the G43 was better for long range than STG44.

NoctyrneSAGA

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195

Thursday, July 12th 2018, 10:57am

BAR and Model 10 A are far from mathematically best though...
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Passive Spotting is the future!

With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


Are you a scrub?

If it flies, it dies™.

VincentNZ

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196

Thursday, July 12th 2018, 11:15am

You do realise that people already used "mathematically best guns" like remington 8 variants, BAR, or model 10-A hunter, right?

Plus weapons in BFV were still aggressively range locked so Erma EMP was useless long range, and the G43 was better for long range than STG44.


Well no, they do not. People gravitate to what feels best and not what actually is the best. Especially in BF1, where you have such a huge range of weaponry and where the choice really mattered for a large portion of the engagements. A SLR that has only five bullets in the clip is just not applicable for the average gamer. But a SLR that roughly plays out like the BF4 counterparts, that is choosen. Players also gravitate to higher ROF weapons since it gives you a boost to TTK in closer ranges. Fact is, most players have no clue about the statistics behind the weapons and their choice is largely made by personal game experience and looks.

Also mathematical advantages often do not translate that well into the actual gameplay, because of the player. You might think you can control that 1000rpm monster, with huge kick, but you can not and would be better off with a slower and more accurate weapon. A capacity of five bullets might be enough for some, but when you meet two people you are screwed etc.
Even if it is like BF3 where one gun is seemingly better than the rest, it does not really matter since there are other conditions at work that are more important. The engagement determines the winner largely, not the weapon.

@BleedingUranium

Do you think a game with the scope of BFV, profits from a system that is rather focused on a singular skillset? I really think that a fast game with 64 players needs random bullet deviation in several forms as well as ways to excel in different ways. Otherwise it will just get as frustrating really fast as BF1 was.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "VincentNZ" (Jul 12th 2018, 12:35pm)


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197

Thursday, July 12th 2018, 1:49pm

You are missing my point entirely though, I was not talking about the average gamer. All I'm trying to say is I'm not worried about some insane gap between skill levels just because the STG44 exists and suppression is gone.

Plus the skill ceiling is at an all time low with BF1 so I very much welcome the direction with BFV.

NoctyrneSAGA

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198

Thursday, July 12th 2018, 8:14pm

@SFAriel

Are you sure you're not talking about the skill floor?

The skill ceiling looks to be about unchanged with infantry players still capable of >100 kills to <10 deaths.

@VincentNZ

Those factors are not impossible to play around.

In fact, learning how to maximize conditions favorable to your weapon is part of player skill so I wouldn't discount the 5 round SLRs or the M16A3 just because conditions that do not favor them exist.
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


Are you a scrub?

If it flies, it dies™.