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121

Tuesday, June 12th 2018, 11:08pm

Vehicle gameplay showcase makes me want to barf.


People being terrible at driving aside, why? I thought the new tanks looked really fun. No more camping like an Arty Truck, and we have turrets and coaxial guns again. Vehicles have more special abilities now too, some even being additional weapons like the AP rounds, giving tankers both shell types and their MG at the same time.
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Tuesday, June 12th 2018, 11:10pm

Vehicle gameplay showcase makes me want to barf.


Vehicles weapons are overnerfed and overall were a struggle to play.

Infantry gets infinite rockets/health and the crate responsible for that was placed on the flag.

Like I said in my earlier post, vehicles have to drive away and by the time they're combat ready we're already moving sectors.

Not an effective weapon or support platform in its current state.



It's fine if they acted on complaints about backline vehicles and made tanks into CQB guns.

It's not fine that despite that direction for vehicles, their movement is still so limited.

I cannot land any of the CQB damage if I cannot get in range in the first place. Vehicle sprint when?
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This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "NoctyrneSAGA" (Jun 12th 2018, 11:24pm)


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Tuesday, June 12th 2018, 11:58pm

Vehicle gameplay showcase makes me want to barf.


People being terrible at driving aside, why? I thought the new tanks looked really fun. No more camping like an Arty Truck, and we have turrets and coaxial guns again. Vehicles have more special abilities now too, some even being additional weapons like the AP rounds, giving tankers both shell types and their MG at the same time.


All of the vehicle weapons basically seem to suck. Mgs seem useless other than point blank range, I mean they perform so badly you'd might as well not have them. Limited ammo pool issues are weird, especially with infantry ability to camp the flags with infinite health/ammo pools.

They are slow tactically, which means you're never where you need to be, and then you need to trundle off to repair/rearm pretty quickly. Overall speed issues (even for the mediums) mean it's more slugging ALA BF1. Which is boring.

Weapons have no facing effects, which means you just park your ass any way you want and pillar to give you some chance for ricochet.

No means of refusing a tow is basically troll tier design.

The other issue is the competition: Post Scriptum just looks like it does everything better than BFV.

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124

Wednesday, June 13th 2018, 3:25am

Quoted from "tankmayvin"


Vehicle gameplay showcase makes me want to barf.

Vehicles weapons are overnerfed and overall were a struggle to play.


My understanding is the secondary gunner station is pretty effective. Did you witness any of that?

Something else to consider is the shockwave effect. Something I'm really looking forward to seeing implemented. I don't know if all tank shells or some or none will produce the shockwave but if they do that could alter the dynamics. Imagine a scenario where you score an area hit on infantry but not close enough for a kill. Traditionally the player turns around and launches a rocket back your way inflicting some damage. However, in BFV because they were close enough to the blast center they are impacted by shockwave and are thrown off their feet for a moment. rendering them unable to fight and easy targets. Of course it's just speculation.

Also when you said the vehicle weapons are weak do you mean the mains or the coax or everything? If the mains I assume you were using HE against infantry and still found it lackluster?

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Wednesday, June 13th 2018, 3:29am

HE is pretty meh against infantry and pretty bad against tanks.

From what I've gathered, you can carry enough AP to destroy 1 tank and switching to it has a time lag.

You're probably better off just using HE on everything to be honest.

Shockwave would be pretty cool but that just further marginalizes the coax and other options that don't have it.



Didn't have a dude in my secondary station but if it's the same as the one on the half-track, then people have no idea what a good machinegun is.



Also, my experience with the ammo crates basically confirmed this.

As for actively needing to get health and ammo, I think it is stupid either way. If it is an interruptible animation then developing this is unnecessary. If you ammo-up with one click, than it is obsolete, if you take one magazine with one click then it is tedious. That is why we got auras in the first place. Yeah it is "immersive", in the same way a quicktime-event where you have to rummage through the crate to get your stuff would be.


One button press to restock everything to excessive amounts where you probably die before expending your ammo.

If for some reason you decide to leave the confines of a flag, you will have so much ammunition that scarcity does not matter anymore.

Not that you want to. You're giving up infinite health to try an attack you know you'll lose without a zerg.

Meanwhile, the chunked resupply of vehicles pretty much demonstrated that pressing it more than once was a tedious chore. The time it takes you out of action is effectively as long as a respawn cycle.

You are more efficient ditching the tank and groundpounding than spending the time it takes to drive to the nearest crate, resupply, and go back to where you're needed.
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This post has been edited 3 times, last edit by "NoctyrneSAGA" (Jun 13th 2018, 4:18am)


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Wednesday, June 13th 2018, 4:30am

Shockwave would be pretty cool but that just further marginalizes the coax and other options that don't have it.


I'm not aware of any vehicle options that lack a coaxial MG, even the halftrack has an MG.


Quoted

Meanwhile, the chunked resupply of vehicles pretty much demonstrated that pressing it more than once was a tedious chore. The time it takes you out of action is effectively as long as a respawn cycle.

You are more efficient ditching the tank and groundpounding than spending the time it takes to drive to the nearest crate, resupply, and go back to where you're needed.


Well... taking you out of combat and giving the infantry a break is sort of the whole idea, so yes, it's sort of like a respawn in that sense. No more infinite farming from a hilltop or some other far too defensible position.

Even if that's true, you're also one to consider redeploying a valid tactic over running somewhere. The focus on squad spawns and importance of vehicles as force multipliers should definitely reduce the appeal and effectiveness of redeploying, for the very small minority that do that.
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Wednesday, June 13th 2018, 4:49am

"It" refers to shockwaves that make follow-ups easier.



There are better ways to rein in a vehicle's power than chores.

BF4 handled this smoothly. BF2 and PR? Not so much.

Vehicle resupply experience summed up in this video.





Yes redeploying was a valid tactic given its rewards. A teleport, full resupply, and full heal every 15s for the cost of 1 ticket in previous titles is pretty hard to beat.

The time it takes to move from one flag to another is so long that a redeploy is faster.

It sometimes took so long to find an ammo box that redeploying would've saved you a lot of trouble and probably a flag. Of the times I do find a crate, most of them end with me dying within 5 seconds of full resupply (thanks weapon queue system) before I get to use much of my new payload. I could've saved myself all that trouble by redeploying.

The biggest difference between redeploying and going through the resupply process is that redeploying lets me play the game while I'm waiting for the vehicle to come back. The resupply system has me waiting to be able to actually play the game while I perform a boring chore.



Of course, the new gameplay changes coupled with how the mode played made redeploying a terrible idea.

There's nowhere else to teleport to since there's only one flag. There's no need to redeploy for ammo or health when there's a crate that does both at a better pace than Medics and Supports can ever achieve.

Like I said earlier, offensives will not last. Defenders get instant full health and ammo. Attackers have to bring Supports and Medics that don't do instant replenish.



Vehicles aren't force multipliers anymore. They are close to being idiot traps.

Infantry has drastically better flexibility, offense, and sustain compared to what vehicles get.



I will reiterate what I said earlier:

If you enjoy Project Reality and infantry focus, this Battlefield is for you.
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This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "NoctyrneSAGA" (Jun 13th 2018, 5:01am)


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Wednesday, June 13th 2018, 3:09pm

I think people are blowing the weakness of tanks out of proportion, because in my first playtest a tank on the Attackers went 67-4 farming us and made a significant on the impact of the game. They never fully won, but they sure as hell got 3/4 objectives on both days and made life miserable for us Defenders.

I don't believe vehicles should be force multipliers or "power fantasies" as a DICE dev put it when describing tanks in BF1. They should instead be viewed as team assets akin to situational gadgets; their effectiveness can only go so far, and it should still require boots/tracks on the ground on point to capture it. Vehicles should also be susceptible to some of the same things infantry players face, like damage drop off and the need to resupply. I'm very happy DICE is agreeing with this viewpoint.

Does that mean I want them to be totally useless? Of course not, I enjoyed driving vehicles and they make up anywhere from 20-25% of my total kills in BF4 and 1. I wouldn't be opposed to minor vehicle buffs, but they need to be done very carefully and through small but noticeable increments. Buff their coaxial guns, speed up the resupply stations on flags to refill shells and HP much faster, increase their top speed ONLY when driving forward, things like this. Hard caps on the amount of HP that can be restored through self-repair and limited ammo should always be in and non-negotiable, the actual amount of HP capped and maximum shells carried can be something that can looked at later only after buffing other things.

Either way, I don't think tanks should be touched that much until open beta when everyone has a chance to interact with them for much longer. I do not want a repeat of 1's dumb vehicle balance on release. Does anybody actually miss 30% Instant Repair tanks sitting 50m outside a point endlessly farming, or Trench Fighters darting your team with zero infantry retaliation except "lol just shoot the plane!" and a dedicated AA gadget introduced at the end of the game's cycle? Because that was the experience for the vast majority of the playerbase who weren't hugging their glorified kill chariots. Battlefield should always, ALWAYS be infantry focused because that's the core experience for the other 50+ players on the server.

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "Ritobasu" (Jun 13th 2018, 5:23pm)


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Wednesday, June 13th 2018, 6:57pm

What else is a tank supposed to do besides leverage overwhelming force against an enemy?

Being a kill chariot isn't an inaccurate statement about their purpose.
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  • "Novan Leon" started this thread

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Wednesday, June 13th 2018, 7:15pm


I can run around with a silenced assault rifle in pub games and rack up a 6:1 KD ratio without breaking a sweat. People just don't know how to deal with someone who doesn't show up on the minimap everytime they start shooting, which is what I mean when I say these overpowered spotting mechanics are dumbing down the game experience for new players. It removes the necessity for mindgames and thinking in the moment and replaces it with waiting for the game to do your work for you.


1) I don't believe you.

2) You're on the wrong forum if you think anyone cares about your arguments based on your unverifiable claims of awesomeness. I cannot magically not-quite triple my KDR by slapping a silencer on a gun, so either I'm bad at BF, of you're full of it.

3) Oh look, marching out the "muh casual" line. How...predictable.


If you don't believe me, that's fine. That's your prerogative.

You apparently take offense at my comments and feel the need to lash out. It may be a good idea to take it down a notch and just treat this like a casual conversation with a stranger on the internet, which is what it is.

Quoted

Unless you including bleeding-edge tech which isn't in mass deployment, there is no tactical equivalent to the minimap or 3D spotting. Not even close. Making callouts or using infrared or laser targeting is essentially the extent of what's available to most ordinary soldiers.


Try again. Look at what you said:

Quoted

IRL Battlefield intelligence is more strategic than tactical, and by introducing it to the tactical side of the game you create these sort of "metagames" where it's more about spotting your opponent than actually engaging the enemy in gunplay.


So?

Let me try again: by stating this, you have made it painfully evident that you don't have the faintest clue what you are talking about IRL, and that you lack even a basic understanding of what "strategic" and "tactical" means.


By all means, educate me. Bashing people for not knowing anything, without actually providing any insight of your own, makes for a very poor discussion.

No, IRL doesn't have magical 3D spotting. But BF is a game. It uses game abstractions. Arbitrarily invoking realism to argue that you don't like something is bullshit. We don't have magical gizmos that necromancy a guy after he's been shot in the chest by a tank shell. We don't have health bars. Hell, humans don't move and fight and shoot remotely anything near what is portrayed in BF.

You can't just trot out realism in what amounts to an abstract war-arcade game.

Also, BF4/BF1 is definitely not more about spotting than shooting, this is hyperbolic/exaggerated to the point of ridiculousness.


Whether something is realistic or not is exactly what we were talking about.

This is what you said:

Quoted from "tankmayvin"

Warfare is mostly about logistics and intelligence, not fighting anyway. So if you're arguing that BF should reflect IRL more, you're actually arguing against yourself.


You were the one "arbitrarily invoking realism".

Whether you think games like Battlefield should be realistic is a different topic altogether.

It's clear you're way too emotional about this topic. Keep it civil and constructive, or I have no interest in continuing to discuss this with you.