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111

Tuesday, June 12th 2018, 7:19am

That's the intention though. Operations is supposed to be more thematic and represent the struggle and the grind against well fortified defenders. If you've ever played Day of Defeat on something like Omaha map then you have a good idea. You get absolutely slaughtered those first few waves but eventually blow up some walls and start making your way to the bunkers.

Additionally, my understanding from this videois that the British get more plane spawns than do the Germans at certain points so they have air superiority and I imagine with a fair or better pilot that would ease the advance somewhat. Then of course we have to consider that only a fraction of the game is playable right now. I imagine something like mortars and rifle grenades and the accompanying shockwave mechanic along with smoke should make things significantly less brutal for attackers.


This is emphasized by the fact that the attackers will always move through all three first days. Not only is it no fun to be stuck in the same Ops/Rush sector for an entire match, the other major issue is you don't get the cool progression/story aspect of moving through the map and seeing all the different areas and outcomes. I've still literally never seen the British win Oil of Empires myself, I had to look up a video to see that ending and closing cutscene. Rush was always much the same way, for some reason Lancang Dam stands out in my memory, it was so rare to experience the whole map.

Now how well the attackers do simply influences reinforcements and other assets, but you'll always be able to experience the whole thing.


Quoted

I understand that you were underwhelmed by the sniper rifles but how was the velocity? If the lethality was reduced did they appear to increase the velocity to make hits slightly easier?


Let's also not forget that limited health regen is a strong buff to Bolt Actions, probably more so than to any other weapon type, alongside Suppression not affecting gunplay and toned down spotting.

On the subject of Suppression, definitely give this interview with Daniel Berlin a watch.


Quoted

Is snowman as OP as it appears to be?


I'm looking forward to seeing people top the scoreboard by only building snowmen.
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NoctyrneSAGA

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112

Tuesday, June 12th 2018, 7:32am

they have air superiority and I imagine with a fair or better pilot that would ease the advance somewhat


I would hope not. Success should not be dependent on aircraft. That is just a path to air rape again.

We did get bombs dropped on us a few times but the bulletproof tunnel the flag was in basically shielded us from them.

I imagine something like mortars and rifle grenades


I would hope these options exist. They are the exact weapon type needed to break these sorts of defensive positions.

Mortars wouldn't be useful because of the bulletproof tunnel.

Rifle Grenades would be useful for people shooting them from below into the tunnel. They would need high enough damage to OHK someone though. Otherwise unlimited instant heal would just undo everything.

I wouldn't be surprised if the complaints about explosive spam and "camping mortar trucks" in BF1 somehow got these items either rendered impotent or even removed.

Speaking of grenades, they are a complete joke now. You can toss them and there's like a 6 second fuze after they impact before they blow up. An apparent knee-jerk response to nadespam of BF1 has led to hand grenades being a joke item unless you were in a position that you couldn't move away (like being stuck in the second of 5 vaulting animations).

No one tossed grenades back to the enemy which is entirely due to lack of information. You don't know how much time is left on that fuze so most people elected to steer clear instead of throwing them back.

I understand that you were underwhelmed by the sniper rifles but how was the velocity? If the lethality was reduced did they appear to increase the velocity to make hits slightly easier?


On such a short distance, it was impossible to gauge velocity well.

It was only noticeable on vehicle MGs because it was THAT MUCH slower which should tell you how slower the bullets are relative to everything else.

The head hitbox is 30% larger according to Drunkzz but we won't know if that actually has any effect at sniping until we play a bigger map. Right now, we're more or less back to the "CQB snipers" of BF4 without ghetto shotgun potential and landing a headshot at close range is not exactly a challenge for any weapon.



Berlin talking about Suppression spotting people was interesting since it's basically Pin Down but it didn't seem to work.

Besides, that isn't what makes Suppression useful. Its utility was reducing the positional advantage someone had (ie longer effective range or a really good headglitch spot).

Spotting them while continuously exposing myself won't help keep me safe and it didn't.
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113

Tuesday, June 12th 2018, 7:37am

Speaking of grenades, they are a complete joke now. You can toss them and there's like a 6 second fuze after they impact before they blow up. An apparent knee-jerk response to nadespam of BF1 has led to hand grenades being a joke item unless you were in a position that you couldn't move away (like being stuck in the second of 5 vaulting animations).

No one tossed grenades back to the enemy which is entirely due to lack of information. You don't know how much time is left on that fuze so most people elected to steer clear instead of throwing them back.


Sounds like grenades are back to doing their job again, which is to make people panic and vacate the area; getting blown up is punishment for not leaving when you should have.

While I'd really like to see proper arming animations (for a longer throw time), the instant detonation fuses were always the real issue, and when I noticed they have proper lengthy fuses again I was very pleased.
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114

Tuesday, June 12th 2018, 7:45am

Speaking of grenades, they are a complete joke now. You can toss them and there's like a 6 second fuze after they impact before they blow up. An apparent knee-jerk response to nadespam of BF1 has led to hand grenades being a joke item unless you were in a position that you couldn't move away (like being stuck in the second of 5 vaulting animations).

No one tossed grenades back to the enemy which is entirely due to lack of information. You don't know how much time is left on that fuze so most people elected to steer clear instead of throwing them back.


Sounds like grenades are back to doing their job again, which is to make people panic and vacate the area; getting blown up is punishment for not leaving when you should have.

While I'd really like to see proper arming animations (for a longer throw time), the instant detonation fuses were always the real issue, and when I noticed they have proper lengthy fuses again I was very pleased.


Certainly felt like there were animations.

The joke doesn't end there. It seems getting shot while throwing a grenade makes them blow up instantly. I think it's the shooting grenades thing they showed in the trailer.

The collision is so forgiving you can unintentionally detonate those things.

All of these factors don't stop you from spamming those things though. It just stops you from panic-nading which is entirely a player behavior problem in BF1.



Throwing a grenade in BF1 (even when spawn delay was not set) would still result in your death since the drawtimes of weapons were still slower than TTKs.

This is even more true after the spawn delay was added which inflated the transition times even more.

What people will do is return to Metro and Locker.

Press throw, wait for the animation, peek, throw, disengage. Spam will still be in full force but panic nades are no more useful than they ever were.

Or back in the days of 3 V40s, Throw Throw Throw before the engagement then charge in.



Honestly, the six second fuze made me think I had thrown a dud.
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115

Tuesday, June 12th 2018, 11:07am

Panic nades were a problem in BF1 because of a combination of absurdly short throw and fuse timers, plus actually being rewarded with damaging the player despite dying in the process. Incendiary nades are the most guilty of this, absolute cancer to deal with desperation molotovs at your feet that instantly does 20HP + additional burn damage while being forced to prone. Never was an issue in any BF title I played before it. BF frags need to return to how they were: a conscious and deliberate choice intended to flush/kill someone staying behind cover, and actually making you vulnerable for a brief moment while throwing it. Again, PUBG is a great example of this where you have to manually press the grenade button and equip it, throw, then switch back to a weapon, all of that takes 5 seconds to do. BFV doesn't need to be as drastic as this, they just need to copy and paste BF4's frag animations and timer.

Bolt actions returning to BF4 levels is completely fine and agreeable with me. All they needed was a velocity and bullet drop buff, but they received plenty of other things that rewarded less mechanically skilled people for playing them. Glad that BFV is forcing a high skill requirement for them again, and it's not like they'll be any shortage of people who can still be easily 1HKO'd thanks to new HP regen.

I've honestly not noticed suppression at all in the time I played, and my own theory is that DICE is intending to add wallbanging as a new way to deter people from peeking. Whether it works out or not, we'll see.

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116

Tuesday, June 12th 2018, 11:56am

I watched quite a bit of gameplay and I am totally unthrilled. Talked to a friend and the conclusion was that we had no idea if we were watching a CoD or BF game. All the gameplay I saw also gave me the impression of a Kindergarten-feeling to the game, I do not know how else to describe it. It is all so colourful and bright and gimmicky, I guess.

However I saw most of the features they announced and that I had doubts about.

The towing seems like a great idea, so that stationary assets can be put into the correct spot to maximize their output. That does include "stealing" enemy assets and/or putting them in unreachable places. That can be seen as a postive or negative, but I think they are, with many features, totally not thinking about player psychology. What about players putting the AA in absolutely useless places, jsut because they are safe. Or in a infantry chokepoint to farm infantry, while the air assets rape your team? Or you are in a good spot and a teammate decides to tow your AA with the bike and ride you into enemy territory to create epic battlefield moments. Shit like this happens all the time and I rather have stationary assets in certain places so I can make tacical decisions instead of a random player factor. BF1 had really good emplacements for the most part.

Fortifications and vehicle resupply seem like a logical choice as well until you further think on it. What about half your attacking team hanging back building fortifications for points, while the other half is pushing the next flag that is heavily defended, with, as others said, resupply crates, unlimited health and ammo as well as cover, while the attackers always lack these tools eventually. Even if you get a decent flank going with no auto regen and less ammo you are kidding yourself if you try to make a difference. It also takes the fight to the flags only, as the defenders always have the advantage of full health and infinite ammo there.

The visual mumbo-jumbo on Narvik reached an insane level, the snow is crazily affecting the gameplay, as are the fire, the smoke and all visual affects. I would say that even on this bright white map, the actual visibility is on BF1 levels, or even worse. And I do not know, whether I want this to be optional or not, since I do not think creating different optic layers of the game is a useful experience.
This ties in to the spotting system, which is severly toned down. Now contextual spotting like in R6 is really great. R6 is a game though, with ten players, clear visuals, high communication, small maps and clear tactical paths. Here we are talking about the Onslaught Simulator 2018, where contextual spotting causes confusion and the lack of 2D spotting just means chaos for everyone. Playing the minimap was an effective strategy and a soft skill in Bf3 and 4 especially when paired up with the other skills like gunplay, hearing etc.. A good point from Noctyrne was that every enemy I can not spot on the minimap will also not be engaged because of me, an elemental teamplay feature. Now it is gone and I am totally bound to be a good shooter playing on a really good rig on low graphic settings in order to reach a level I am comfortable with. I absolutely hate it, that they remove soft skills from the game.

The gunplay is also inconsistent. The recoil seems range from no to extreme and if it is indeed a recoil pattern per gun I find this to be rather intuitive, but I withhold judgement until I see some definite stats. However what I see is that with no auto-regen and therefore different health pools for every engagement they are also very inconsistent, which is never a good thing. Before you would know that a guy drops within 4-7 bullets as most engagements where with 100 health. Now it can be anything. Grenade throws are still instant and remind me of that lovebeam the carebears shoot of out their furry breasts. Stupid. Carebears I like though.

I've seen one revive in the gameplay and the squad revive is absolutely useless since it gets you up to 35(?) health and it takes way too long. I do not see how this promotes teamplay at all.

As a conclusion, I figured that DICE obviously has a different approach on what tactical and teamplay means. For them it means putting 32 people together at a flag building cover for themselves, getting health and ammo for themselves and you have teamplay. Add 32 players run into that flag several times until they overcome it is a tactical assault. Then turn the tables, on Conquest and Frontlines, or rinse and repeat on Operations.

Well I am not going to skip this game, as I am a fan of the franchise from BF1942 to 4, but I fully think that everything they change looks stupid. The graphics are neat though, and I expect the sound to be the same.

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Tuesday, June 12th 2018, 5:29pm

@BleedingUranium
I wouldnt be opposed to a grounded, physically immersive, less video-gamey mode. That can be a fun alternate experience.

But an entire game designed around it is not something I can see myself or friends playing for long (or at all in this case, unless it's free: as a Norwegian the rumored Rjukan war story is intriguing). Such a design philosphy makes for less depth, teamplay options and accessibility, while facilitating more frustration, something that has been discussed before.

You can't fix pubbies being stupid

Exactly why the game should be designed in a way that ensures minimum playability, while having teamwork as a boosting action, instead of forcing "teamwork" to do anything at all. Nothing is lost here except frustration. The team with better teamwork will still win.

Dropping ammo is AI-companion level teamwork.


Actually seeing a person isn't difficult, the only thing that got in the way of that was the blinding snow effects on the second day of the Ops.

I'm not worried about the accessibility of the game to newcomers or veterans, as they'll either figure it out right away or not be interested in the game in the first place.

Poor visibility is definitely off-putting, even if you are interested in the game. Even if you get really good at the game, getting shot by a pile of mud or a smoke plume is not fun.

I see you say seeing people isnt difficult though, hope it's so.


On that last part, don't reject accesibility. I think it affects longevity of a game too. If it wasn't pleasant to play the first time, picking it up again after a few weeks isn't going to be attractive either. I rarely want to play Rainbow six siege because of the lack of aim assist, not because I cant ever git gud at aiming, but every first few rounds are just annoying. And then I rather spend the limited time I have on something else, even though I think Rainbow six is pretty awesome.

If people played the games they were interested in regardless of accessibility, accessibility wouldnt be a concept other than for disabilites.

Good riddance, BF1's own RBD and visual recoil made the game feel like shit to play. Won't be missed.


Complete removal is a pretty harsh response though. Bf4's satisfying gunplay used spread, there must be a nice medium using Bf1's good ideas. We'll see how it turns out.

signature 2.2

Things I support
ammo regen pls

Quoted from "NoctyrneSAGA"

_____
When I play with it [Autoloading 8] I feel like I am batman taking out 1 after 1 baddie while they feel helpless and don't know who is talking out their mates.
Remove 3D spotting. It’s a mechanic that rewards bad eyesight.
Wanna help your team by sneaking through enemy territory to provide spawns? THIS IS NOT TEAMWORK FGT I HOPE YOU RUN OUT OF MOTION BALLS TOO EARLY TO BE SUCCESSFUL
Wanna be Javelin squad but only have two guys? BETTER NOT GET YOUR SOFLAM KILLED FGT THIS IS NOT TEAMWORK WITHOUT A SUPPORT DUDE DROPPING AMMO ON YOU EVERY 2 MINUTES
Please post your best M1916 clips Magazines *fixed*.


DICE pls

Squadmate Healthbars in the HUD
Minor console QoL improvements
Ping Tool idea
"Wants to talk" tag for squad menu
Adding Suppression Confirmation
Spotting suggestions

Posts I should finish sometime:
Squad priority vehicle system (and anti stealing suggestion)
Scoring system flaws (and concept)
Battlefield definition
New helicopter idea
Suppression rework
Flow, immersion and fun in battlefield
Specializations: ideas and system rework
Gadget reworks and ideas
Why limited infinite ammo would be awesome
Other bitesize ideas


This post has been edited 3 times, last edit by "potetr" (Jun 12th 2018, 5:37pm)


NoctyrneSAGA

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118

Tuesday, June 12th 2018, 7:00pm

I see you say seeing people isnt difficult though, hope it's so.


That is probably due to the level.

People wearing greyish-green camo and standing on a white background don't exactly blend in.

I think they are, with many features, totally not thinking about player psychology.


I concur.

It'll be a repeat of situations where I park an armored car to watch a choke only for another player to spawn in and drive it off to another location. Only now even stationaries are subject to it.

I'm sure it works great when everyone knows where these emplacements need to go. I'm sure it'll fall apart miserably when they don't.
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Tuesday, June 12th 2018, 7:53pm

I see you say seeing people isnt difficult though, hope it's so.


That is probably due to the level.

People wearing greyish-green camo and standing on a white background don't exactly blend in.

I think they are, with many features, totally not thinking about player psychology.


I concur.

It'll be a repeat of situations where I park an armored car to watch a choke only for another player to spawn in and drive it off to another location. Only now even stationaries are subject to it.

I'm sure it works great when everyone knows where these emplacements need to go. I'm sure it'll fall apart miserably when they don't.


Yeah that is one case. The other one is the use of assets effectively in a unconvential, yet effective way, and the player's perspective on it. As an example take the BF4 MAA with Zunis, and how it was used. You have a vehicle with a certain role, that is also needed in that role, but you get a loadout that allows effectively fighting ground targets. That is a game changer. Or the HMMWV on Rush in Damavand Peak. Here out of sheer necessity someone got the idea that you can effectively fight the Littlebird with the transport vehicle. Next thing you know somebody gets in and uses it as a transport, just because they do not know any better at the moment.
It will be the same here. Maybe the game needs the stationary MG or AA to perform the AA role, but how is the player supposed to know that? He will do what is best for him, and if you can easily kill infantry with the MAA on a chokepoint he will do just that, while the rest is getting raped by air assets. And of course there are the people who just have no clue, or are just plain trolls. Stationary assets however can not be trolled as easily and, if smartly placed, can be balanced to fulfil a certain role consistently.

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Tuesday, June 12th 2018, 10:52pm

Vehicle gameplay showcase makes me want to barf.