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  • "Iammeatt" started this thread

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Friday, September 11th 2015, 11:28am

Best way to run LMGs now post Summer Patch?

Was wondering how I should equip the belt fed LMGs for aggressive type of playstyle for console players?

I find all the Belt Fed LMGs extremely difficult to use now especially on infantry based maps, I find myself getting outgunned by Assault Rifles and pretty much every other class gun in the game.

I've always liked the MG4, M249, M240b before the Spring patch but it seems that after that patch they're extremely hard to use.

Maybe its the new spread mechanic they introduced?

Anyway I usually run Compensator+Stubby Grip or Muzzle Break+Stubby. Should I change this for the LMGs?

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Friday, September 11th 2015, 12:55pm

The summer patch changed nothing about LMGs except a slight buff to the L86A2.

I can still answer your question, though.

- You should avoid using the muzzle brake whenever possible. Vertical recoil should be controllable enough, although it's probably more of an issue on console.
- You should ask yourself whether you move around while shooting a lot. If yes, the stubby grip is not the way to go, but the ergo will help greatly. If you don't, the stubby is a solid choice.
- If you can handle it, the heavy barrel can be a very useful attachment on guns at or below 800 RPM. The compensator can be useful on the MG4, M249 and M240B as well, so that's not wrong.

What you can't do anymore with LMGs is run around spraying and praying at max spread. No more 200 round bursts. They're also not ideal for straight 1 on 1 firefights, and are more suited for defensive situations and suppressive fire.

My recommended belt-fed lmg loadout for aggressive play starts by replacing the belt fed LMG with either the L86A2, RPK, a carbine or a shotgun of your choice.
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Of course, this ignores the non-constant cross-sectional first moment of area across the chest as well as non-constant material properties of the boob; it would be difficult to perform a more detailed analysis (as in, I'd have to have a shape function AND I'd need to derive a function for elastic modulus as a function of lateral breast coordinate) but whatever. It's 2am and I'm lazy.


I always believed science should be very hands on experience.

You should also answer this question I had posed in that thread: Would you be willing to pay your surgeon more if he was going to use a chainsaw for the opening incision of surgery? Clearly using a chainsaw isn't truly suited for surgery but that doesn't really matter. If he's "skilled" enough to be able to use the wrong tools of the trade, he should be rewarded for that skill right?


Zer0Cod3x

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Friday, September 11th 2015, 1:01pm

I find all the Belt Fed LMGs extremely difficult to use now especially on infantry based maps, I find myself getting outgunned by Assault Rifles and pretty much every other class gun in the game.

Most of them (barring the RPK) are geared towards mid-long range. You can't run into a building and expect to win a 1v1 with a FAMAS. If you can hang back slightly, they're really good.

Anyway I usually run Compensator+Stubby Grip or Muzzle Break+Stubby. Should I change this for the LMGs?

Those are fine. Most I would recommend either comp + stubby or HB + stubby, except for the L86/QBB where I run HB + ergo. I know lots of people will recommend the bipod as well, but since you're looking for an aggressive setup this probably wouldn't be all that useful.

I've always liked the MG4, M249, M240b before the Spring patch but it seems that after that patch they're extremely hard to use.

Do you mean recoil is putting your shots off, or spread, or something else?
something something Model 8 bestgun


How to ice an A-91

Next, wanna try adding a guy that you KNOW is bad, and just testing to see that? Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

PP-2000 added. Y'know, it's not that bad....

Yes, it comes in last so far, but that is mostly because I'm making it shoot at 100m ADS - Not Moving as one of the criteria. Even then, between 50-100m Not Moving, when you include Useability, it is only 1.37% worse than the MTAR-21. Within 50m then it even beats the A-91.

Have a look, vs. the A-91 Carbine:




Using it with Muzzle Brake and Compensator is a wash in terms of overall performance. Comp is SLIGHTLY more accurate, while MB is SLIGHTLY more easy to use. Their overall scores are basically tied, with MB just ahead. I guess either can be recommended.

But... You can't be counting for the fact that it takes 9 bullets to kill at "long" range... Don't you dare tell me my A-91 is worse than a 9 BTK 650 RPM mediocre PDW.

Also. Just go heavy barrel. The recoil is low enough.

Well, technically...

Comparing a PP2K with HB and an A-91 with comp and stubby (as you suggested in an earlier post), at 50m not moving, the A-91 is only better by 4 damage per hitrate. While at 75m and 100m, surprisingly the PP2K does better than the A-91 (I'm pretty damn surprised as well).

And 10m and 50m moving the PP2K also does more damage per hitrate than the A-91. At 25m the A-91 is only better by about half a bullet's damage as well.

In addition, the PP2K has a much larger mag size and substantially less recoil. And it looks hella awesome. So comparing the A-91 to a PDW is of some worth after all, as the PP2K is better (technically, not practically) than the A-91.

Mind blown.

I... I...

*cries in a corner*

Zer0Cod3x explained it very well. If you look at the raw numbers right here on Symthic Comparison, you can see how that happened:

A-91 vs PP-2000 | BF4 Weapon Comparison | Symthic

A-91's "23%" RPM advantage only afforded it 1 extra round.

Reload times are wash.

Velocities are wash.

V-Recoil are wash (and this is HBar on PP2k vs. A-91 without).

Hipfire and ADS - Moving are better on the PP2k, but it's a PDW and not the surprising part.

The surprising part is that, as equipped (and we see above that PP2k HBar has almost same V-Recoil as A-91 without HBar so why not?), the PDW performs better at 50 - 100m than a bloody Carbine. Why?

H-Recoil Spread, 0.525 vs. 0.45, advantage PP2k.

SIPS, 42% better on the PP2k.

And here is the most important part. ADS - Not Moving Spread, 0.35 vs. 0.2, 43% improvement.

Without HBar then of course the PP2k loses, which is why when I add all the attachments together for an Overall Ranking, it would slot below the A-91. Run HBar on it, though, then... I'm sorry

@Veritable
@Zer0Cod3x
I... I...
But...
Wha...
I AM HAVING AN EXISTENTIAL CRISIS IN SCHOOL BECAUSE OF YOU TWO.

FUCK YOU NERDS AND YOUR FANCY NUMBERS

SEXY RUSSIAN BULLPUPS FTW.

In all seriousness, thank you both so much for giving me the numbers. I still don't want to accept them. You have led the horse to water. I still need to drink.


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Friday, September 11th 2015, 5:51pm

As a fellow console player I have also found the MG4 and M249 to be a lot less useful post spring patch. without a HBAR they are very inaccurate and with an HBAR they are really hard to control. I'd say the type 88 is a better choice since it is about as "heavy" an lmg as you can go while still being effective with an HBAR. I'd say the m249 and MG4 are really only effective on bipods now due to high ROF. either that or close range spraying. at mid range their spread and recoil is too unpredictable so you have to fire very short bursts at which point you aren't taking advantage of the ROF or the 200 rounds so why bother?

the less said about BF4 GPMGs the better...

MRAP MGs all the way. just sit in your nice little armoured box getting all the kills and getting to flags really fast. ^^

ViperFTW

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Friday, September 11th 2015, 6:46pm

Honestly? Same way as you did before, only with added ergo grip :)

Going to be shooting targets at close range and using long bursts? Stubby grip will still come out on top.
Engaging enemies at longer ranges, or a mix? Ergo grip will have you covered.
Too cool for grips, or just hate snipers? Bipod :)

Along with your choice of barrel attachment and sight (or scope, if you're badass enough to handle magnified recoil), and you're good to go :thumbsup:

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Sheepnub

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Friday, September 11th 2015, 7:13pm

..I'm going to be 'that guy'

RPK-74M - HB - Angled seems like a decent run-n-gun/scar-h substitute :|
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Thanks for the heads up!
*Logs out of Symthic in preparation*

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>littlebird passanger, semi-auto frag rounds
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Meanwhile at DICE-headquarters during BF4's release:

I'm pretty sure there's a massive post-it on every desk "DON'T FUCKING TOUCH ANYTHING THAT IS ACTUALLY DOING WHAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE DOING"

UCAV:
"Hey guys remember how stupid prenerf mav was?"

"Lets add c4 to it."

The World Champion went to China once.

They called me a Gweilo.

So I kicked a big fucking hole in their wall and let all the Mongolians in.

just thought I'd share.


The thought of Assaults running out of ACE 23 rounds mid firefight, Engineers facing the rear of an unaware MBT with no rockets left, Recons unable to...Whatever the fuck they do. These are the things that keep me up at night ;(


About hunturk:
I don't know what's funnier, the video itself of the fact that an unlisted video has more views than most of your normal videos :P

...


You just live to hit people upside the noggin with a Math Bomb, don't you?

[context] Maybe it's the UK's overly aggressive porn filter at work. After all, it does have the word "monkey" in it and monkeys have been known to have sex so...


Previously, at DICE HQ:
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I assume a functional game (BF4) also.

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So cute!


But but but

He's a Youtuber ;(

There's no way he doesn't know what he's talking about


ViperFTW

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Friday, September 11th 2015, 7:27pm

..I'm going to be 'that guy'

RPK-74M - HB - Angled seems like a decent run-n-gun/scar-h substitute :|


Well firstly its the RPK-47 now, or just "RPK" :P
Secondly: With only a 1.25x FSM I'd say you should definitely get better results with the ergo grip. Totally agree with the hbar though :)

Everybody's Favourite Worthless Support and LMG Fan! :thumbsup:



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  • "Iammeatt" started this thread

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Friday, September 11th 2015, 9:27pm

The rpk has worked the best for me by far but it's not a belt fed and I guess I just love the way belt feds look and sound and I just feel like a proper support player while using them. Also not having to reload as often is a huge benefit.

Type 88 and lsat are pretty good but they're just not going to out shoot anyone unless I get a advantage on them.

I used to love the m249 and mg4 before the spring patch. But now they're very hard to use for some reason I can't hit anything with them now and get tons of hit markers and assists.

Is the penalty of running ergo grip on lmgs really noticeable? I used to dominate with the comp+ergo on the m240b before spring patch but since the patch I've been trying to use it with different combinations.

Zer0Cod3x

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Saturday, September 12th 2015, 12:24am

RPK is only good up to 25 m, after that it kinda sucks.
something something Model 8 bestgun


How to ice an A-91

Next, wanna try adding a guy that you KNOW is bad, and just testing to see that? Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

PP-2000 added. Y'know, it's not that bad....

Yes, it comes in last so far, but that is mostly because I'm making it shoot at 100m ADS - Not Moving as one of the criteria. Even then, between 50-100m Not Moving, when you include Useability, it is only 1.37% worse than the MTAR-21. Within 50m then it even beats the A-91.

Have a look, vs. the A-91 Carbine:




Using it with Muzzle Brake and Compensator is a wash in terms of overall performance. Comp is SLIGHTLY more accurate, while MB is SLIGHTLY more easy to use. Their overall scores are basically tied, with MB just ahead. I guess either can be recommended.

But... You can't be counting for the fact that it takes 9 bullets to kill at "long" range... Don't you dare tell me my A-91 is worse than a 9 BTK 650 RPM mediocre PDW.

Also. Just go heavy barrel. The recoil is low enough.

Well, technically...

Comparing a PP2K with HB and an A-91 with comp and stubby (as you suggested in an earlier post), at 50m not moving, the A-91 is only better by 4 damage per hitrate. While at 75m and 100m, surprisingly the PP2K does better than the A-91 (I'm pretty damn surprised as well).

And 10m and 50m moving the PP2K also does more damage per hitrate than the A-91. At 25m the A-91 is only better by about half a bullet's damage as well.

In addition, the PP2K has a much larger mag size and substantially less recoil. And it looks hella awesome. So comparing the A-91 to a PDW is of some worth after all, as the PP2K is better (technically, not practically) than the A-91.

Mind blown.

I... I...

*cries in a corner*

Zer0Cod3x explained it very well. If you look at the raw numbers right here on Symthic Comparison, you can see how that happened:

A-91 vs PP-2000 | BF4 Weapon Comparison | Symthic

A-91's "23%" RPM advantage only afforded it 1 extra round.

Reload times are wash.

Velocities are wash.

V-Recoil are wash (and this is HBar on PP2k vs. A-91 without).

Hipfire and ADS - Moving are better on the PP2k, but it's a PDW and not the surprising part.

The surprising part is that, as equipped (and we see above that PP2k HBar has almost same V-Recoil as A-91 without HBar so why not?), the PDW performs better at 50 - 100m than a bloody Carbine. Why?

H-Recoil Spread, 0.525 vs. 0.45, advantage PP2k.

SIPS, 42% better on the PP2k.

And here is the most important part. ADS - Not Moving Spread, 0.35 vs. 0.2, 43% improvement.

Without HBar then of course the PP2k loses, which is why when I add all the attachments together for an Overall Ranking, it would slot below the A-91. Run HBar on it, though, then... I'm sorry

@Veritable
@Zer0Cod3x
I... I...
But...
Wha...
I AM HAVING AN EXISTENTIAL CRISIS IN SCHOOL BECAUSE OF YOU TWO.

FUCK YOU NERDS AND YOUR FANCY NUMBERS

SEXY RUSSIAN BULLPUPS FTW.

In all seriousness, thank you both so much for giving me the numbers. I still don't want to accept them. You have led the horse to water. I still need to drink.