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Pastafarianism

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11

Monday, August 24th 2015, 12:07am

QBU if you are mentally capable of reloading for a shitton of time all the time. M39 if you can't but can handle recoil. MK11/SCAR of you can't do either.

Or SKS suppressed. That's a sexy gun

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Master of nothing, mediocre at everything... except dropping ammo boxes. I do that like it's my fucking job.
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No, but i am into immature jokes about sexual intercourse with cats with a pinch of stereotypical asian accent. :D

Thanks razal.

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ViperFTW

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Monday, August 24th 2015, 12:23am

QBU if you are mentally capable of reloading for a shitton of time all the time. M39 if you can't but can handle recoil. MK11/SCAR of you can't do either.

Or SKS suppressed. That's a sexy gun


I disagree entirely. Apart from a difference in damage (not enough at either end of the spectrum to make any of them less than a 3 hit kill) and the magazine size, the QBU trumps all 3 of your other suggestions in all areas, including the most important factor for any DMR: Spread increase!

And the Spam Kannon Supreme is an annoying sack of shit and doesn't fucking count as a DMR...Hell, it shouldn't even be in the fucking game :(

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Pastafarianism

Mom's Spaghetti

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Monday, August 24th 2015, 12:41am

Quoted

QBU if you are mentally capable of reloading for a shitton of time all the time. M39 if you can't but can handle recoil. MK11/SCAR of you can't do either.

Or SKS suppressed. That's a sexy gun


I disagree entirely. Apart from a difference in damage (not enough at either end of the spectrum to make any of them less than a 3 hit kill) and the magazine size, the QBU trumps all 3 of your other suggestions in all areas, including the most important factor for any DMR: Spread increase!

And the Spam Kannon Supreme is an annoying sack of shit and doesn't fucking count as a DMR...Hell, it shouldn't even be in the fucking game :(

M39 and SCAR/MK11 will never (I'm not even going to go into the weird scenarios) be a 4 shot kill. That's massive, especially when your highest optic is 4x and your max RPM is less than my trigger finger on a bad day. The reload speed combined with a shit mag size creates a situation similar to the GROZA-4's, where you NEED constant cover and excellent positioning skills. I happen to love the GROZA-4 and used to love the QBU (haven't used it in a while because I have found no need to use DMRs for the most part) and adore the L85, all of which have terribad reloads and the former two have shitty magazine sizes, but I'm simply saying if you're not used to long reloads (as an assault player I thing MrT3a might not be) then you're SOL. You and I, Viper, play support a lot. So we're used to loooooong reloads. T3a probably isn't.

The SKS is balanced, IMO. It's shit at range, good up close and at medium ranges, which is awkward for a DMR.

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Master of nothing, mediocre at everything... except dropping ammo boxes. I do that like it's my fucking job.
BAND RECOMMENDATION OF THE WEEK (or really till whenever I update it): I don't really have much if I'm being honest. Give me some metalcore recommendations and I'll try 'em out
Good Quotes Ahead:

Spoiler Spoiler


Quoted


You're into Chinese nowadays?
No, but i am into immature jokes about sexual intercourse with cats with a pinch of stereotypical asian accent. :D

Thanks razal.

I don't even have a big neck.

I didn't know vertigo could disrupt one's sense of size.


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14

Monday, August 24th 2015, 2:37am

I use SCAR H SV with HB Ergo

why this is not the best option?

My Google Sheets is not set up for HC nor Headshots, but if looking at Headshots then I agree the HBar will be much more useful. Personally though it takes me longer to aim for the head than to aim for the chest and shoot 3 times. Remember: fighting V-Recoil while starting from the head = miss, while V-Recoil MAY help you net a bonus headshot if starting from the chest. If nothing else, it is a much bigger area to shoot at.

SCAR-H SV's new awesome H-Recoil values don't mean anything for this one-and-recover shooting style I'm looking at. The same for HBar and Stubby's SIPS buffs. So, it comes down to if you need HBar's ADS - Not Moving spread value or not. If not, then use MB.

If you fire at max-RPM then both H-Recoil and SIPS will come into play, though.

As for Ergo, I'm a fan as you can tell. I just think I wouldn't pair it with HBar; I'd go with MB as a recommendation. Unless, it is the SKS (it kinda needs the HBar) and the QBU-88, both with low starting V-Recoil. Feel free to run the HBar on those.

PS the HBar + AFG chart is exactly the same as HBar + Ergo. Obviously ADS - Moving will be hugely different but not looking at that here.

Finally, if you are shooting one-and-recover, instead of the SCAR-H SV, why not try the SVD-12? Both have the same base spread, same programmed 260RPM, essentially the same damage model, and the SVD can kill 1-3 frames faster if using both with HBar + Ergo / AFG. Don't like the magazine size? Why not the ACE 53 SV?

For myself, I'm now using ACE 53 SV + SUPPRESSOR (same as Naked) + Ergo + Target Detector. If going loud then M39 HBar + AFG or MB + Ergo.



I use Scar because:

1. It has better Velocity which help me to hit moving target (the same that An94 and SRR 61 - the only other guns I usually use)

2. It has very little visual recoil with Acog which help me to stay on target.

3. Due to its very small horizontal recoil it recover from horizontal recoil almost the same time it recover from spread increase after shot which means that I only fight with vertical recoil and have "laser" side to side

used to be #3 in the World in RAWR Kills:)

CobaltRose

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15

Monday, August 24th 2015, 4:54am

2. It has very little visual recoil with Acog which help me to stay on target.
>post-Autumn patch 2014

>still talking about visual recoil

>MFW medium range scopes had little to no visual recoil in the first place




Anyways, can't agree with the SCAR-H SV IMO. The way the gun kicks, it just feels like it floats too much at the top of its animation (not to mention it's firing sound sucks: standard SCAR-H sound + DMR sonic boom). Much prefer the other options in the class.
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Monday, August 24th 2015, 5:27am

The way the gun kicks, it just feels like it floats too much at the top of its animation (not to mention it's firing sound sucks: standard SCAR-H sound + DMR sonic boom).

I kinda get what he's talking about. He probably prefers the recoil animation of the SCAR-H SV which is apparently shared with the SCAR-H AR. Same as the ACE 53 SV, which is shared with all the other ACE rifles / carbines. They both have less of an upward "jump," compared to all the other DMRs. I don't prefer that, as it feels like a disconnect between the reticle and the actual aim point, but it is more "quiet" for sure.

As for me, I prefer that "jump" because it reminds me to stop spamming the damned thing. Anecdotally, my Mk11 weapon accuracy is the highest, even while Suppressed, for basically no other reason.

I actually have come to look at H-Recoil Range as another component to induce follow-up shot inaccuracy, so I just look at it as the sibling of SIPS. Thus, in terms of follow-up shot inaccuracy, I put the ACE 53 SV ("high" H-Recoil Range but low SIPS) to be on the same class as the SCAR-H SV (extremely low H-Recoil Range but high SIPS). With the same damage model, faster reload vs. big magazine, and same "official" V-Recoil, now we're left with Velocity differences and aesthetics, which are now getting into subjective territories (which my Big Lists tried to address, but to be honest that's just scratching the surface).

*added*

@Pastafarianism

@ViperFTW

The SKS + Ergo + Suppressor or HBar is like the best "DMR" within say 90m, say up to 5 shots of "Supreme Spammage." Especially now that its biggest Achilles' Heel, its 15m/s2 Gravity, is now set back to 9.81. Like Viper mentioned, though, even though now whenever I pick it up I do REALLY WELL with it, it feels really dirty :P so I can't bring myself to main it. Like many Canadians, I had one as my "starter" firearm, and it was definitely no DMR by any stretch of imagination ;(

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Veritable" (Aug 24th 2015, 5:35am)


17

Monday, August 24th 2015, 7:01am

Since we're talking DMR loadouts, I noticed something post-patch, which I thought may be interesting....

OK so I quite like DMR's as a weapon, but IMO the only ones I can trust are the three with 300+ RPM RoF (because if someone surprises me and I have a CQB spam situation, I'm totally boned without that RoF). I also like to run a suppressor because I find that firing a single shot is so loud that it attracts the attention of enemy teams on other servers ;) Thanks to the SKS' horrible ADS spread, it kinda needs a HBAR, so that leaves me with the QBU, which needs reloading too often (but is otherwise stellar - Well balanced there IMO) and sometimes requires a 4 bullet kill, and the M39. So now you know why I like the M39.....

Pre-patch, I ran with ergo (Because I'm on console, tiny aim adjustments require strafing, due to thumbstick deadzones. I stop before I shoot, but the ergo ensures minimal spread increase for that fraction of a second where I strafe to aim). Post patch, I still like the M39, but I kept noticing that when those surprise CQB situation arose.... I was missing most of my shots. I mean my aim was fine but the rounds went to 'whereever', thanks to spread.

I played around in the test range and after a while it hit me - the spread decrease doesn't kick in until the rifle is ready to fire, but if you're firing it at full RoF, then there's NO spread decrease, because every time it's ready to fire, you fire it.

Accordingly, I'm now running my M39 with a stubby... the cost of spread decrease is something I can handle at range because I'm pacing my shots anyway, and in CQB, it's a must...

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Monday, August 24th 2015, 8:10am

Veritable, is your dmr info thread up to date?

Zer0Cod3x

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Monday, August 24th 2015, 8:11am

@Veritable

Do your charts take into consideration hitrates and recoil?
something something Model 8 bestgun


How to ice an A-91

Next, wanna try adding a guy that you KNOW is bad, and just testing to see that? Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

PP-2000 added. Y'know, it's not that bad....

Yes, it comes in last so far, but that is mostly because I'm making it shoot at 100m ADS - Not Moving as one of the criteria. Even then, between 50-100m Not Moving, when you include Useability, it is only 1.37% worse than the MTAR-21. Within 50m then it even beats the A-91.

Have a look, vs. the A-91 Carbine:




Using it with Muzzle Brake and Compensator is a wash in terms of overall performance. Comp is SLIGHTLY more accurate, while MB is SLIGHTLY more easy to use. Their overall scores are basically tied, with MB just ahead. I guess either can be recommended.

But... You can't be counting for the fact that it takes 9 bullets to kill at "long" range... Don't you dare tell me my A-91 is worse than a 9 BTK 650 RPM mediocre PDW.

Also. Just go heavy barrel. The recoil is low enough.

Well, technically...

Comparing a PP2K with HB and an A-91 with comp and stubby (as you suggested in an earlier post), at 50m not moving, the A-91 is only better by 4 damage per hitrate. While at 75m and 100m, surprisingly the PP2K does better than the A-91 (I'm pretty damn surprised as well).

And 10m and 50m moving the PP2K also does more damage per hitrate than the A-91. At 25m the A-91 is only better by about half a bullet's damage as well.

In addition, the PP2K has a much larger mag size and substantially less recoil. And it looks hella awesome. So comparing the A-91 to a PDW is of some worth after all, as the PP2K is better (technically, not practically) than the A-91.

Mind blown.

I... I...

*cries in a corner*

Zer0Cod3x explained it very well. If you look at the raw numbers right here on Symthic Comparison, you can see how that happened:

A-91 vs PP-2000 | BF4 Weapon Comparison | Symthic

A-91's "23%" RPM advantage only afforded it 1 extra round.

Reload times are wash.

Velocities are wash.

V-Recoil are wash (and this is HBar on PP2k vs. A-91 without).

Hipfire and ADS - Moving are better on the PP2k, but it's a PDW and not the surprising part.

The surprising part is that, as equipped (and we see above that PP2k HBar has almost same V-Recoil as A-91 without HBar so why not?), the PDW performs better at 50 - 100m than a bloody Carbine. Why?

H-Recoil Spread, 0.525 vs. 0.45, advantage PP2k.

SIPS, 42% better on the PP2k.

And here is the most important part. ADS - Not Moving Spread, 0.35 vs. 0.2, 43% improvement.

Without HBar then of course the PP2k loses, which is why when I add all the attachments together for an Overall Ranking, it would slot below the A-91. Run HBar on it, though, then... I'm sorry

@Veritable
@Zer0Cod3x
I... I...
But...
Wha...
I AM HAVING AN EXISTENTIAL CRISIS IN SCHOOL BECAUSE OF YOU TWO.

FUCK YOU NERDS AND YOUR FANCY NUMBERS

SEXY RUSSIAN BULLPUPS FTW.

In all seriousness, thank you both so much for giving me the numbers. I still don't want to accept them. You have led the horse to water. I still need to drink.


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20

Monday, August 24th 2015, 9:14am

Do your charts take into consideration hitrates and recoil?

Not really, I guess? In my study, the shooter is firing 1 round, gun is ready to fire again, then wait enough frames for SIPS to recover, before firing the next round. Repeat until dealing 100 damage. By firing with a Burst Length of 1, all SIPS and H-Recoil are not taken into consideration. I do have my usual "Useability" scores that include V-Recoil, but since that is subjective I decided not to present them yet here. The values showing on the charts are purely Frames-to-Kill, based on the weapon's firing Frames, SIPS for the weapon + attachment combos, and Spread Decrease.

Thus, all DMRs except for the SKS have a hit rate of 100% up to 100m ADS - Not Moving aiming at center-mass. The only exception is the SKS with its 0.2 Spread, with a 99% Hitrate at 80m, 94% at 90m and 87% at 100m.

*added*

@Mesmus

Kinda. The Hitrates are still current as of the latest patch, but Useability is still in flux. Also, I no longer think "damage within 13 frames" is a good indicator for damage output: too many weapons getting screwed by firing frames that just miss the cut-off. This new study is using Frames-to-Kill, which is much more representative to in-game performance, and can take your shooting styles (1-and-recover vs. 3RB) into account.