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Posts: 1,420

Date of registration
: Jun 23rd 2012

Platform: PC

Location: Germany, Bavaria

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31

Saturday, July 4th 2015, 5:04pm

looking at that, groza with laser sight is the best? if mag size isnt a issue

Yes, but to get even better hipfire a stubby would be better.

Actually quite suprisingly the UMP-9 is the second best hipfire weapon in the game.

By what standards?
Zormau - Battlelog / Battlefield 4

Memorable quotes not taken yet:


Of course, this ignores the non-constant cross-sectional first moment of area across the chest as well as non-constant material properties of the boob; it would be difficult to perform a more detailed analysis (as in, I'd have to have a shape function AND I'd need to derive a function for elastic modulus as a function of lateral breast coordinate) but whatever. It's 2am and I'm lazy.


I always believed science should be very hands on experience.

You should also answer this question I had posed in that thread: Would you be willing to pay your surgeon more if he was going to use a chainsaw for the opening incision of surgery? Clearly using a chainsaw isn't truly suited for surgery but that doesn't really matter. If he's "skilled" enough to be able to use the wrong tools of the trade, he should be rewarded for that skill right?


Sheepnub

I pity the wool

(2,326)

Posts: 3,234

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: Sep 20th 2013

Platform: PC

Location: Atlantis

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32

Saturday, July 4th 2015, 5:45pm

looking at that, groza with laser sight is the best? if mag size isnt a issue

Yes, but to get even better hipfire a stubby would be better.

Actually quite suprisingly the UMP-9 is the second best hipfire weapon in the game.

There are a ton of weapons with .6 hipfire spread. Most firing at much higher rates of fire.

And there are quite a few ones that have an even lower hipfire base spread (js2, p90, groza-4, pdw-r, m9).

What makes you say the UMP-9 is the "second best hipfire weapon"?
"I put aside a few sceptics, the types of decency in the history of philosophy: the rest haven't the slightest conception of intellectual integrity."
Friedrich Nietzsche


Best of epic quotes :D

Spoiler Spoiler

Just realized it's 4/20 tomorrow


Thanks for the heads up!
*Logs out of Symthic in preparation*

Hardline is a fun and sometimes silly Cops and Robbers sorta thing and I think that's great. Or it would be if it didn't suck.

>littlebird passanger, semi-auto frag rounds
>gunship OP

Meanwhile at DICE-headquarters during BF4's release:

I'm pretty sure there's a massive post-it on every desk "DON'T FUCKING TOUCH ANYTHING THAT IS ACTUALLY DOING WHAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE DOING"

UCAV:
"Hey guys remember how stupid prenerf mav was?"

"Lets add c4 to it."

The World Champion went to China once.

They called me a Gweilo.

So I kicked a big fucking hole in their wall and let all the Mongolians in.

just thought I'd share.


The thought of Assaults running out of ACE 23 rounds mid firefight, Engineers facing the rear of an unaware MBT with no rockets left, Recons unable to...Whatever the fuck they do. These are the things that keep me up at night ;(


About hunturk:
I don't know what's funnier, the video itself of the fact that an unlisted video has more views than most of your normal videos :P

...


You just live to hit people upside the noggin with a Math Bomb, don't you?

[context] Maybe it's the UK's overly aggressive porn filter at work. After all, it does have the word "monkey" in it and monkeys have been known to have sex so...


Previously, at DICE HQ:
"Ok guys, the password is "epic dream worlds"; everyone take a letter and do your best to turn it into into something random that we can put into a picture!"


I assume a functional game (BF4) also.

Aww!
*pinches cheeks*
So cute!


But but but

He's a Youtuber ;(

There's no way he doesn't know what he's talking about


Zer0Cod3x

Can't get a title

(1,327)

Posts: 1,531

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: Dec 23rd 2013

Platform: Xbox One

Location: The Land of Multitudinous Kangaroos

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33

Saturday, July 4th 2015, 9:44pm

@Sheepnub
@Zormau

Perhaps I should have said second best fully auto in the game for hipfire. The Groza-4 is first.

You have to remember that while hipfiring, you won't be bursting or tap firing, you'll be holding down the trigger. This means that having a low SIPS is equally or more important than a low min spread.

The UMP-9 is the lowest RPM PDW that can equip both a HB and stubby (except the Groza-4). This reduces its SIPS to 0.061. However, the P90, PDW-R and JS2 all cannot equip a stubby. And although they might have less min spread, they have much higher SIPS.

Assumimg all PDWs are equipped with laser sights, let's stats it up. The UMP-9 will have a lower spread than the JS2 on the 5th bullet fired, and practically equal to the P90 (0.0034 difference in SIPS) on the 6th.

But what about the PDW-R? Shouldn't that have a lower SIPS? Well, it fires an AR bullet (don't ask me to go into specifics :) ) so it has a SIPS equal* to a 750 RPM AR. Even with a HB the UMP-9 will beat it on the 7th shot.

Whilst the UMP-9 might not have the best hipfire min spread it has one of the best SIPS values, which make it good for hipfiring.



@Miffyli

*The PDW-R on the BF4 weapon charts has a 0.097 SIPS, but should mathematically have one of 0.098. I know it's a small change, but can you check this?
something something Model 8 bestgun


How to ice an A-91

Next, wanna try adding a guy that you KNOW is bad, and just testing to see that? Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

PP-2000 added. Y'know, it's not that bad....

Yes, it comes in last so far, but that is mostly because I'm making it shoot at 100m ADS - Not Moving as one of the criteria. Even then, between 50-100m Not Moving, when you include Useability, it is only 1.37% worse than the MTAR-21. Within 50m then it even beats the A-91.

Have a look, vs. the A-91 Carbine:




Using it with Muzzle Brake and Compensator is a wash in terms of overall performance. Comp is SLIGHTLY more accurate, while MB is SLIGHTLY more easy to use. Their overall scores are basically tied, with MB just ahead. I guess either can be recommended.

But... You can't be counting for the fact that it takes 9 bullets to kill at "long" range... Don't you dare tell me my A-91 is worse than a 9 BTK 650 RPM mediocre PDW.

Also. Just go heavy barrel. The recoil is low enough.

Well, technically...

Comparing a PP2K with HB and an A-91 with comp and stubby (as you suggested in an earlier post), at 50m not moving, the A-91 is only better by 4 damage per hitrate. While at 75m and 100m, surprisingly the PP2K does better than the A-91 (I'm pretty damn surprised as well).

And 10m and 50m moving the PP2K also does more damage per hitrate than the A-91. At 25m the A-91 is only better by about half a bullet's damage as well.

In addition, the PP2K has a much larger mag size and substantially less recoil. And it looks hella awesome. So comparing the A-91 to a PDW is of some worth after all, as the PP2K is better (technically, not practically) than the A-91.

Mind blown.

I... I...

*cries in a corner*

Zer0Cod3x explained it very well. If you look at the raw numbers right here on Symthic Comparison, you can see how that happened:

A-91 vs PP-2000 | BF4 Weapon Comparison | Symthic

A-91's "23%" RPM advantage only afforded it 1 extra round.

Reload times are wash.

Velocities are wash.

V-Recoil are wash (and this is HBar on PP2k vs. A-91 without).

Hipfire and ADS - Moving are better on the PP2k, but it's a PDW and not the surprising part.

The surprising part is that, as equipped (and we see above that PP2k HBar has almost same V-Recoil as A-91 without HBar so why not?), the PDW performs better at 50 - 100m than a bloody Carbine. Why?

H-Recoil Spread, 0.525 vs. 0.45, advantage PP2k.

SIPS, 42% better on the PP2k.

And here is the most important part. ADS - Not Moving Spread, 0.35 vs. 0.2, 43% improvement.

Without HBar then of course the PP2k loses, which is why when I add all the attachments together for an Overall Ranking, it would slot below the A-91. Run HBar on it, though, then... I'm sorry

@Veritable
@Zer0Cod3x
I... I...
But...
Wha...
I AM HAVING AN EXISTENTIAL CRISIS IN SCHOOL BECAUSE OF YOU TWO.

FUCK YOU NERDS AND YOUR FANCY NUMBERS

SEXY RUSSIAN BULLPUPS FTW.

In all seriousness, thank you both so much for giving me the numbers. I still don't want to accept them. You have led the horse to water. I still need to drink.


NoctyrneSAGA

PvF 2017 Champion

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Posts: 7,177

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: Apr 3rd 2012

Platform: PC

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34

Saturday, July 4th 2015, 9:51pm

*The PDW-R on the BF4 weapon charts has a 0.097 SIPS, but should mathematically have one of 0.098. I know it's a small change, but can you check this?


750 / 7700 = 0.0974
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


Are you a scrub?

If it flies, it dies™.

Zer0Cod3x

Can't get a title

(1,327)

Posts: 1,531

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: Dec 23rd 2013

Platform: Xbox One

Location: The Land of Multitudinous Kangaroos

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35

Saturday, July 4th 2015, 9:55pm

*The PDW-R on the BF4 weapon charts has a 0.097 SIPS, but should mathematically have one of 0.098. I know it's a small change, but can you check this?


750 / 7700 = 0.0974

Then why does then M416 have a SIPS of 0.098?
something something Model 8 bestgun


How to ice an A-91

Next, wanna try adding a guy that you KNOW is bad, and just testing to see that? Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

PP-2000 added. Y'know, it's not that bad....

Yes, it comes in last so far, but that is mostly because I'm making it shoot at 100m ADS - Not Moving as one of the criteria. Even then, between 50-100m Not Moving, when you include Useability, it is only 1.37% worse than the MTAR-21. Within 50m then it even beats the A-91.

Have a look, vs. the A-91 Carbine:




Using it with Muzzle Brake and Compensator is a wash in terms of overall performance. Comp is SLIGHTLY more accurate, while MB is SLIGHTLY more easy to use. Their overall scores are basically tied, with MB just ahead. I guess either can be recommended.

But... You can't be counting for the fact that it takes 9 bullets to kill at "long" range... Don't you dare tell me my A-91 is worse than a 9 BTK 650 RPM mediocre PDW.

Also. Just go heavy barrel. The recoil is low enough.

Well, technically...

Comparing a PP2K with HB and an A-91 with comp and stubby (as you suggested in an earlier post), at 50m not moving, the A-91 is only better by 4 damage per hitrate. While at 75m and 100m, surprisingly the PP2K does better than the A-91 (I'm pretty damn surprised as well).

And 10m and 50m moving the PP2K also does more damage per hitrate than the A-91. At 25m the A-91 is only better by about half a bullet's damage as well.

In addition, the PP2K has a much larger mag size and substantially less recoil. And it looks hella awesome. So comparing the A-91 to a PDW is of some worth after all, as the PP2K is better (technically, not practically) than the A-91.

Mind blown.

I... I...

*cries in a corner*

Zer0Cod3x explained it very well. If you look at the raw numbers right here on Symthic Comparison, you can see how that happened:

A-91 vs PP-2000 | BF4 Weapon Comparison | Symthic

A-91's "23%" RPM advantage only afforded it 1 extra round.

Reload times are wash.

Velocities are wash.

V-Recoil are wash (and this is HBar on PP2k vs. A-91 without).

Hipfire and ADS - Moving are better on the PP2k, but it's a PDW and not the surprising part.

The surprising part is that, as equipped (and we see above that PP2k HBar has almost same V-Recoil as A-91 without HBar so why not?), the PDW performs better at 50 - 100m than a bloody Carbine. Why?

H-Recoil Spread, 0.525 vs. 0.45, advantage PP2k.

SIPS, 42% better on the PP2k.

And here is the most important part. ADS - Not Moving Spread, 0.35 vs. 0.2, 43% improvement.

Without HBar then of course the PP2k loses, which is why when I add all the attachments together for an Overall Ranking, it would slot below the A-91. Run HBar on it, though, then... I'm sorry

@Veritable
@Zer0Cod3x
I... I...
But...
Wha...
I AM HAVING AN EXISTENTIAL CRISIS IN SCHOOL BECAUSE OF YOU TWO.

FUCK YOU NERDS AND YOUR FANCY NUMBERS

SEXY RUSSIAN BULLPUPS FTW.

In all seriousness, thank you both so much for giving me the numbers. I still don't want to accept them. You have led the horse to water. I still need to drink.


NoctyrneSAGA

PvF 2017 Champion

(9,997)

Posts: 7,177

Date of registration
: Apr 3rd 2012

Platform: PC

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36

Saturday, July 4th 2015, 10:40pm

Then why does then M416 have a SIPS of 0.098?


Implying that is correct.
Data Browser

Passive Spotting is the future!

With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


Are you a scrub?

If it flies, it dies™.

DeathOfTheDodo

Veni, SMAW, Vici

(863)

Posts: 1,829

Date of registration
: Jun 30th 2013

Platform: PS4

Location: North of The Wall, Canada

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37

Saturday, July 4th 2015, 11:22pm

Shotguns are only flat-out better if you use the duckbill choke.
[SYM]Deathofthedodo
BE ADVISED BE ADVISED BE ADVISED BE ADVISED BE ADVISED BE ADVISED BE ADVISED

"AK Attachment Guide"

No.

ToTheSun!

Be Creative.

(5,050)

Posts: 7,811

Date of registration
: Mar 9th 2012

Platform: PC

Location: Portugal

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38

Saturday, July 4th 2015, 11:48pm

Shotguns are only flat-out better if you use the duckbill choke.

Har har.

CobaltRose

I'll be there... around every corner... in every empty room...

(1,219)

Posts: 3,446

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: Nov 8th 2013

Platform: PC

Location: Boston's Trashcan, USA

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39

Sunday, July 5th 2015, 12:48am

The UMP-9 is the lowest RPM PDW that can equip both a HB and stubby (except the Groza-4). This reduces its SIPS to 0.061.
I thought I heard somewhere here that the HBAR SIPS buff only applied when ADS.
Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?

Memorable Quotes

I once tried to burn a bridge, but due to the half-assed levolution implementation it kept standing up just fine.

Compared to the MTAR, the PDR has the TTK of your average pack of cigarettes.

The World Champion, on the Tactical Light:
"Oh don't mind me, I'm just out of ammo and I'll just POCKET SUN!!!!"

What can't be changed can be banned.

I'm completely serious. Well, seriously insane actually :P

If only more people left the wheel chair, adjustable hospital bed, and crutches behind and played HC. (aka Regen, Minimap, Killcam)

Natalia Poklonskaya:
Putin the cute in prosecute since 2014.

I can't look at my own avatar without having to pee. GG Me. GG.

I swear to god if you reply with a picture of the AEK I'll mail you a buttplug shaped like one.

The one time when "it's only three inches" is a good thing.

How do you guys control your FAMAS burst length since it fires its mag in just 1,5 seconds))
I consider each magazine a burst. :/

This is Symthic, we don't do "feels" around here ;)



Sheepnub

I pity the wool

(2,326)

Posts: 3,234

Date of registration
: Sep 20th 2013

Platform: PC

Location: Atlantis

Battlelog:

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40

Sunday, July 5th 2015, 12:55am

The UMP-9 is the lowest RPM PDW that can equip both a HB and stubby (except the Groza-4). This reduces its SIPS to 0.061.
I thought I heard somewhere here that the HBAR SIPS buff only applied when ADS.

I can confirm this is true.
"I put aside a few sceptics, the types of decency in the history of philosophy: the rest haven't the slightest conception of intellectual integrity."
Friedrich Nietzsche


Best of epic quotes :D

Spoiler Spoiler

Just realized it's 4/20 tomorrow


Thanks for the heads up!
*Logs out of Symthic in preparation*

Hardline is a fun and sometimes silly Cops and Robbers sorta thing and I think that's great. Or it would be if it didn't suck.

>littlebird passanger, semi-auto frag rounds
>gunship OP

Meanwhile at DICE-headquarters during BF4's release:

I'm pretty sure there's a massive post-it on every desk "DON'T FUCKING TOUCH ANYTHING THAT IS ACTUALLY DOING WHAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE DOING"

UCAV:
"Hey guys remember how stupid prenerf mav was?"

"Lets add c4 to it."

The World Champion went to China once.

They called me a Gweilo.

So I kicked a big fucking hole in their wall and let all the Mongolians in.

just thought I'd share.


The thought of Assaults running out of ACE 23 rounds mid firefight, Engineers facing the rear of an unaware MBT with no rockets left, Recons unable to...Whatever the fuck they do. These are the things that keep me up at night ;(


About hunturk:
I don't know what's funnier, the video itself of the fact that an unlisted video has more views than most of your normal videos :P

...


You just live to hit people upside the noggin with a Math Bomb, don't you?

[context] Maybe it's the UK's overly aggressive porn filter at work. After all, it does have the word "monkey" in it and monkeys have been known to have sex so...


Previously, at DICE HQ:
"Ok guys, the password is "epic dream worlds"; everyone take a letter and do your best to turn it into into something random that we can put into a picture!"


I assume a functional game (BF4) also.

Aww!
*pinches cheeks*
So cute!


But but but

He's a Youtuber ;(

There's no way he doesn't know what he's talking about