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Zer0Cod3x

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Thursday, May 28th 2015, 3:32pm

Integrated Barrel Attachments

So the integrated ergo grips that some of the PDWs have actually affects the stats. How about barrel attachments? For example, the AS VAL and Groza-4 have an integrated HB and the Groza-1 has an integrated comp. Do these affect the stats of the guns or are they purely cosmetic?
something something Model 8 bestgun


How to ice an A-91

Next, wanna try adding a guy that you KNOW is bad, and just testing to see that? Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

PP-2000 added. Y'know, it's not that bad....

Yes, it comes in last so far, but that is mostly because I'm making it shoot at 100m ADS - Not Moving as one of the criteria. Even then, between 50-100m Not Moving, when you include Useability, it is only 1.37% worse than the MTAR-21. Within 50m then it even beats the A-91.

Have a look, vs. the A-91 Carbine:




Using it with Muzzle Brake and Compensator is a wash in terms of overall performance. Comp is SLIGHTLY more accurate, while MB is SLIGHTLY more easy to use. Their overall scores are basically tied, with MB just ahead. I guess either can be recommended.

But... You can't be counting for the fact that it takes 9 bullets to kill at "long" range... Don't you dare tell me my A-91 is worse than a 9 BTK 650 RPM mediocre PDW.

Also. Just go heavy barrel. The recoil is low enough.

Well, technically...

Comparing a PP2K with HB and an A-91 with comp and stubby (as you suggested in an earlier post), at 50m not moving, the A-91 is only better by 4 damage per hitrate. While at 75m and 100m, surprisingly the PP2K does better than the A-91 (I'm pretty damn surprised as well).

And 10m and 50m moving the PP2K also does more damage per hitrate than the A-91. At 25m the A-91 is only better by about half a bullet's damage as well.

In addition, the PP2K has a much larger mag size and substantially less recoil. And it looks hella awesome. So comparing the A-91 to a PDW is of some worth after all, as the PP2K is better (technically, not practically) than the A-91.

Mind blown.

I... I...

*cries in a corner*

Zer0Cod3x explained it very well. If you look at the raw numbers right here on Symthic Comparison, you can see how that happened:

A-91 vs PP-2000 | BF4 Weapon Comparison | Symthic

A-91's "23%" RPM advantage only afforded it 1 extra round.

Reload times are wash.

Velocities are wash.

V-Recoil are wash (and this is HBar on PP2k vs. A-91 without).

Hipfire and ADS - Moving are better on the PP2k, but it's a PDW and not the surprising part.

The surprising part is that, as equipped (and we see above that PP2k HBar has almost same V-Recoil as A-91 without HBar so why not?), the PDW performs better at 50 - 100m than a bloody Carbine. Why?

H-Recoil Spread, 0.525 vs. 0.45, advantage PP2k.

SIPS, 42% better on the PP2k.

And here is the most important part. ADS - Not Moving Spread, 0.35 vs. 0.2, 43% improvement.

Without HBar then of course the PP2k loses, which is why when I add all the attachments together for an Overall Ranking, it would slot below the A-91. Run HBar on it, though, then... I'm sorry

@Veritable
@Zer0Cod3x
I... I...
But...
Wha...
I AM HAVING AN EXISTENTIAL CRISIS IN SCHOOL BECAUSE OF YOU TWO.

FUCK YOU NERDS AND YOUR FANCY NUMBERS

SEXY RUSSIAN BULLPUPS FTW.

In all seriousness, thank you both so much for giving me the numbers. I still don't want to accept them. You have led the horse to water. I still need to drink.


marbleduck

Smoked Salmon Best Salmon

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Thursday, May 28th 2015, 4:05pm

No, the Ass Val and the Groza-4 have what is the equivalent of both a heavy barrel and suppressor equipped. So the Groza has a .225 base ADS spread in addition to the low sound level; the Ass Val has a .2 base ADS spread.

Platoon Marble Duck

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VincentNZ

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Thursday, May 28th 2015, 4:05pm

I asked this question and this is what our Hitrate guy came up with :) :

Now I wonder the following: Is this represented in the stats already or does it come on top of the stats listed here or on the weapon charts?

I don't think the site is set up to handle hybrid attachments for now, so how I intend to use the site is to run the Groza with the Heavy Barrel. Suppressor does not affect Hitrater usage except for Hipfire - Not Moving, so if only doing ADS simulations then it's no big deal. Just mentally lower Velocity if doing something with Useability.


So as far as I get it, the attachments have effects, but are not represented on this site, you would have to manually calculate it.

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Thursday, May 28th 2015, 11:33pm

So as far as I get it, the attachments have effects, but are not represented on this site, you would have to manually calculate it.

Working on the Groza-4 now, and here are what I intend to use:

Velocity: 300m/s (same for both attachments)
V-Recoil: 0.403 (HBar value)
ADS - Not Moving Spread: 0.225 (HBar value)
ADS - Moving Spread without Ergo: 0.4749 (HBar Value)
ADS - Moving Spread with Ergo: 0.34995 (HBar Value)
SIPS without Stubby: 0.084175 (HBar value)
SIPS with Stubby: 0.06734 (HBar value)
Hipfire - Not Moving: 0.9 (Supp value)
Hipfire - Moving without Ergo: 1.25 (Supp value)
Hipfire - Moving with Ergo: 1.075 (Supp value)

Since HBar and Supp benefits and penalties do not overlap, it's not so bad. Would be nice to have hybrid attachments made just for these 2 guns, but that sounds like too much work for too little so I won't fault Symthic guys for not doing so. I'll just keep referring back to this post if I need to.

VincentNZ

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Friday, May 29th 2015, 8:26am

Point taken. It is somewhat work, I would not want to do it myself. It just makes the Grozas look worse than they are, and a couple of other weapons as well. Maybe a little chitty saying: "Remember, this thing has a built-in Ergo grip, the more you know."

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Friday, May 29th 2015, 8:40am

Point taken. It is somewhat work, I would not want to do it myself. It just makes the Grozas look worse than they are, and a couple of other weapons as well. Maybe a little chitty saying: "Remember, this thing has a built-in Ergo grip, the more you know."

Groza-1? Even though in-game it says Ergo, it's actually an Angled. That's what Multi-Comparison now shows it to be, and it is confirmed by Rezal.

If you are doing any work with the Groza-4 then just use the values I posted above, I'm confident that they should be correct.

PS Groza-4 has awesome stats thanks to that. I wish I can get this mythical HBar Supp on everything I use....