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  • "ThomasDaDankEngn" started this thread

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Wednesday, May 13th 2015, 4:06am

MAA: 20 mm or 30 mm?

Is the info on the MAA stats page up to date? I heard that 20 mm had its velocity nerfed to be the same as 30 mm. So now they both have the same DPS and the same velocity. The differences are that the 30 mm has zero base spread (although they both have the same max spread) and the 20 mm can be fired for longer (6 s vs 3.5 s). The consensus seems to be that the 30 mm is now the best option for all purposes. Is that true?

It also seems like autoloader only effects the 20 mm (from my experimentation on the test range). Am I just imagining this? Given that both cannons have the same DPS and max spread wouldn't 7 s of 20 mm (with autoloader) fire be better than 3.5 s of 30 mm?

Also, are the spread increase values on the stats page per shot or per second?

NoctyrneSAGA

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Wednesday, May 13th 2015, 4:33am

Vehicle stats are sorely outdated and should be completely disregarded.

In the CTE, 20mm is used for engaging fast targets and 30mm when you might fight armor like on Zavod.
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With this, I'll rid MGO3 of infestation. Sans bad gameplay MGO3 will be torn asunder. And then it shall be free. People will suffer, of course - a phantom pain.

Reddit and Konami will rewrite the records... And I will be demonized in human memory. But... The thirst for good gameplay that I have planted will infest MGO3. No one can stop it now. The Rebalance Mod will unleash that thirst unto the future.


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C0llis

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Wednesday, May 13th 2015, 10:38am

In live the 30mm stomps the 20mm. Also note that spread increase for the MAA is bugged in retail so they are always firing at minspread. So the 30mm gets equal dps against air vehicles, better dps against ground targets, 0 spread all the time and exactly the same speed and range as the 20mm. The only thing the 20mm does better is that it can fire for longer.

In CTE however the 20mm is actually worth using again, there it has a velocity and range advantage. Spread increase for the MAA is also fixed in CTE.

I don't know if the MAA changes (gun changes + better elevation) will make it into retail in the spring patch though. There hasn't been any word about it and I've never gotten an answer from any dev, despite asking them like 3+ times on CTE.

Things people said

And reading Youtube comments still gives me Turbo Cancer.

It really is quite frustrating when Helen Keller sets up her LMG in the only doorway in/out of an area.

What kind of question is that? Since when is cheese ever a bad idea?

Hardline is a fun and sometimes silly Cops and Robbers sorta thing and I think that's great. Or it would be if it didn't suck.

Zer0Cod3x

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Wednesday, May 13th 2015, 11:21am

In vanilla, use 20mm if purely anti-air. 30mm for everything else. 30mm completely decimates infantry.
something something Model 8 bestgun


How to ice an A-91

Next, wanna try adding a guy that you KNOW is bad, and just testing to see that? Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

PP-2000 added. Y'know, it's not that bad....

Yes, it comes in last so far, but that is mostly because I'm making it shoot at 100m ADS - Not Moving as one of the criteria. Even then, between 50-100m Not Moving, when you include Useability, it is only 1.37% worse than the MTAR-21. Within 50m then it even beats the A-91.

Have a look, vs. the A-91 Carbine:




Using it with Muzzle Brake and Compensator is a wash in terms of overall performance. Comp is SLIGHTLY more accurate, while MB is SLIGHTLY more easy to use. Their overall scores are basically tied, with MB just ahead. I guess either can be recommended.

But... You can't be counting for the fact that it takes 9 bullets to kill at "long" range... Don't you dare tell me my A-91 is worse than a 9 BTK 650 RPM mediocre PDW.

Also. Just go heavy barrel. The recoil is low enough.

Well, technically...

Comparing a PP2K with HB and an A-91 with comp and stubby (as you suggested in an earlier post), at 50m not moving, the A-91 is only better by 4 damage per hitrate. While at 75m and 100m, surprisingly the PP2K does better than the A-91 (I'm pretty damn surprised as well).

And 10m and 50m moving the PP2K also does more damage per hitrate than the A-91. At 25m the A-91 is only better by about half a bullet's damage as well.

In addition, the PP2K has a much larger mag size and substantially less recoil. And it looks hella awesome. So comparing the A-91 to a PDW is of some worth after all, as the PP2K is better (technically, not practically) than the A-91.

Mind blown.

I... I...

*cries in a corner*

Zer0Cod3x explained it very well. If you look at the raw numbers right here on Symthic Comparison, you can see how that happened:

A-91 vs PP-2000 | BF4 Weapon Comparison | Symthic

A-91's "23%" RPM advantage only afforded it 1 extra round.

Reload times are wash.

Velocities are wash.

V-Recoil are wash (and this is HBar on PP2k vs. A-91 without).

Hipfire and ADS - Moving are better on the PP2k, but it's a PDW and not the surprising part.

The surprising part is that, as equipped (and we see above that PP2k HBar has almost same V-Recoil as A-91 without HBar so why not?), the PDW performs better at 50 - 100m than a bloody Carbine. Why?

H-Recoil Spread, 0.525 vs. 0.45, advantage PP2k.

SIPS, 42% better on the PP2k.

And here is the most important part. ADS - Not Moving Spread, 0.35 vs. 0.2, 43% improvement.

Without HBar then of course the PP2k loses, which is why when I add all the attachments together for an Overall Ranking, it would slot below the A-91. Run HBar on it, though, then... I'm sorry

@Veritable
@Zer0Cod3x
I... I...
But...
Wha...
I AM HAVING AN EXISTENTIAL CRISIS IN SCHOOL BECAUSE OF YOU TWO.

FUCK YOU NERDS AND YOUR FANCY NUMBERS

SEXY RUSSIAN BULLPUPS FTW.

In all seriousness, thank you both so much for giving me the numbers. I still don't want to accept them. You have led the horse to water. I still need to drink.


C0llis

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Wednesday, May 13th 2015, 12:02pm

Use 30mm against air as well in vanilla. The perfect accuracy makes it easy to snipe helis at max range and you can take on inf easily as well. 800 m/s with 800 max range is only so-so against jets anyway and having deviation on top of that pretty much counters the advantage of firing longer with the 20mm. The advantage against ground targets of the 30mm outweighs the longer bursts of the 20mm, not to mention that you can just burst with the 30mm to avoid overheats and keep the bullet storm up pretty indefinitely.

Use 30mm and zunis, murder helis, annoy jets and be the best IFV in the game because normal IFVs have shitty elevation.

Things people said

And reading Youtube comments still gives me Turbo Cancer.

It really is quite frustrating when Helen Keller sets up her LMG in the only doorway in/out of an area.

What kind of question is that? Since when is cheese ever a bad idea?

Hardline is a fun and sometimes silly Cops and Robbers sorta thing and I think that's great. Or it would be if it didn't suck.

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Wednesday, May 13th 2015, 12:08pm

What C0llis said.

In CTE, spread increase works, 20 mm has 0.3 to 0.5 spread and slightly better damage up close for infantry defense. 1200 m/s velocity and 1000 m range. 30 mm has 0.2 to 0.4 spread. Autoloader works on both. Same damage past 15 m. 30 mm is better for smaller maps with no jets, because you get more damage on target.
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This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Rezal" (May 13th 2015, 1:08pm)


C0llis

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Wednesday, May 13th 2015, 1:04pm

I didn't know that 20mm has better damage up close against inf now, but I'm glad that's the case.

What is the new damage against inf and what was the old damage?

Things people said

And reading Youtube comments still gives me Turbo Cancer.

It really is quite frustrating when Helen Keller sets up her LMG in the only doorway in/out of an area.

What kind of question is that? Since when is cheese ever a bad idea?

Hardline is a fun and sometimes silly Cops and Robbers sorta thing and I think that's great. Or it would be if it didn't suck.

Posts: 4,259

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: Apr 6th 2012

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Location: From the heart of Europe.

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Wednesday, May 13th 2015, 1:07pm

I dont know the current multiplier against infantry, but both cannons use the same. 20 mm simply has more DPS up close. Also, 30 mm is actually equal past 15 m. 50 m is where both cannon reach minimum damage.

Edit: Multiplier is 0.670, damage is 15-12.6 with 10-50 m dropoff on 20 mm, 49-42 with 15-50 m dropoff on 30 mm. I have heard that the multiplier will be decreased down to 0.570 with the next vehicle changes though. Retail damage values are 12.5 and 42 constant with 0.5 multi.
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Wednesday, May 13th 2015, 7:40pm

yeah the 30mm is great against infantry. after using the lackluster 20mm for a while, the 30mm feels like going back to pre nerf BF3 AA just annihilating infantry everywhere.

personally i don't like how BF games do miniguns, it feels more like you're spraying someone with a hose until he falls down than shooting actual bullets

  • "ThomasDaDankEngn" started this thread

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Wednesday, May 13th 2015, 11:51pm

I hopped in the MAA on Paracel last night. I tried the 30 mm for the first time along with zunis, thermal optics, smokescreen and prox scan. I can understand people saying that it's better at anti-infantry than anti-air. Taking out infantry with the 20 mm was like pulling teeth but with the 30 mm they drop like flies. Add zunis to the mix and you're essentially a better IFV - I even took out an attack boat on A.

I didn't actually take out any aircraft though, I just did like 20-50 dmg to a chopper and he ran off. My ultimate aim is to be able to use it to follow my friend's tank around in and protect him from attack jets / attack helis while also helping to cap flags and take out infantry / armour.

note that spread increase for the MAA is bugged in retail so they are always firing at minspread

I had no idea. Is that only for 30 mm or for both cannons? It's amazing that this kind of bug can still exist 18 months after the game's release.

I don't know if the MAA changes (gun changes + better elevation)

Better elevation meaning you can aim higher? It's already close to 90 degrees. Jet pilots will truly have no defense anymore as their anti-MAA tactic is basically to attack at a 90 degree angle so that the MAA can't shoot back.