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  • "Veritable" started this thread

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Saturday, April 18th 2015, 8:56am

Poll - At What Range Do You Start Bursting?

Doing a big chart of Hitrater simulations, and trying to decide at what range does my "shooter" switch from full-auto rock n' roll to bursting. I can't really ask myself, as I'm an exclusive DMR user so technically I'm "bursting" at every range. And then the only other automatic-capable weapon class I use, the Carbine, I use the M4, which is again "bursting" at the seams....

The ranges are 10m, 25m, 50m, 75m and 100m. I currently have it set to start bursting at 50m+. The result of this poll may change that!

As an aside, did you know that due to the 30Hz "Frostbite Time" and the way it handles "bullet-out," at certain RPM settings you can fire 3-rounds-bursts and then pause 1 frame to recover all accumulated spread... so you are starting from base spread at every burst... and yet still shoot the exact same amount of rounds as if you were just holding down the trigger? Those are:

  1. 700RPM - 12 rounds fired continuously per second vs. 4x 3-rounds-bursts from base spread
  2. 680RPM - 12 rounds full-auto vs. 4x 3-rounds-bursts
  3. 650RPM - 11 rounds full-auto vs. 3x 3-rounds-bursts + 2 rounds
  4. 300RPM - 5 rounds "full-auto" (this is obviously a DMR RPM so this is max firing rate) vs. 4 rounds at "optimal click rate" + 1 round
  5. 260RPM - 5 rounds "full-auto" vs. 4 rounds at "optimal click rate" + 1 round

This is after a lot of time counting green squares and starting at these charts as provided by 3VN: BF4 shooting mechanics and BF4 shooting mechanics


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Saturday, April 18th 2015, 8:58am

TYPE-88 LMG Bipod Master Race.
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Saturday, April 18th 2015, 10:06am

I'm pretty terrible in the sense that I can't stop myself from bursting, even when the target is dangerously close and it would be better to do longer sprays or go full hose.

I've spent too much time with LMGs (without a stubby).


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Saturday, April 18th 2015, 10:27am

I would have chosen the option for 35m as I'm bursting at that range practically no matter what, sometimes even tap firing depending what gun I'm using. Could we get some sort of option for 35-40m?

In addition, from what I've heard, seen and from personal experience, burst/tap firing is much more prevalent on consoles than on PC. Just something to consider.
something something Model 8 bestgun

How to ice an A-91

Next, wanna try adding a guy that you KNOW is bad, and just testing to see that? Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

PP-2000 added. Y'know, it's not that bad....

Yes, it comes in last so far, but that is mostly because I'm making it shoot at 100m ADS - Not Moving as one of the criteria. Even then, between 50-100m Not Moving, when you include Useability, it is only 1.37% worse than the MTAR-21. Within 50m then it even beats the A-91.

Have a look, vs. the A-91 Carbine:

Using it with Muzzle Brake and Compensator is a wash in terms of overall performance. Comp is SLIGHTLY more accurate, while MB is SLIGHTLY more easy to use. Their overall scores are basically tied, with MB just ahead. I guess either can be recommended.

But... You can't be counting for the fact that it takes 9 bullets to kill at "long" range... Don't you dare tell me my A-91 is worse than a 9 BTK 650 RPM mediocre PDW.

Also. Just go heavy barrel. The recoil is low enough.

Well, technically...

Comparing a PP2K with HB and an A-91 with comp and stubby (as you suggested in an earlier post), at 50m not moving, the A-91 is only better by 4 damage per hitrate. While at 75m and 100m, surprisingly the PP2K does better than the A-91 (I'm pretty damn surprised as well).

And 10m and 50m moving the PP2K also does more damage per hitrate than the A-91. At 25m the A-91 is only better by about half a bullet's damage as well.

In addition, the PP2K has a much larger mag size and substantially less recoil. And it looks hella awesome. So comparing the A-91 to a PDW is of some worth after all, as the PP2K is better (technically, not practically) than the A-91.

Mind blown.

I... I...

*cries in a corner*

Zer0Cod3x explained it very well. If you look at the raw numbers right here on Symthic Comparison, you can see how that happened:

A-91 vs PP-2000 | BF4 Weapon Comparison | Symthic

A-91's "23%" RPM advantage only afforded it 1 extra round.

Reload times are wash.

Velocities are wash.

V-Recoil are wash (and this is HBar on PP2k vs. A-91 without).

Hipfire and ADS - Moving are better on the PP2k, but it's a PDW and not the surprising part.

The surprising part is that, as equipped (and we see above that PP2k HBar has almost same V-Recoil as A-91 without HBar so why not?), the PDW performs better at 50 - 100m than a bloody Carbine. Why?

H-Recoil Spread, 0.525 vs. 0.45, advantage PP2k.

SIPS, 42% better on the PP2k.

And here is the most important part. ADS - Not Moving Spread, 0.35 vs. 0.2, 43% improvement.

Without HBar then of course the PP2k loses, which is why when I add all the attachments together for an Overall Ranking, it would slot below the A-91. Run HBar on it, though, then... I'm sorry

I... I...



In all seriousness, thank you both so much for giving me the numbers. I still don't want to accept them. You have led the horse to water. I still need to drink.

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Saturday, April 18th 2015, 2:59pm

Bursting? I hold the trigger until they die
I hold the trigger until they die
trigger until they die
they die


I pity the wool


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Saturday, April 18th 2015, 7:59pm

I try to always ADS, including in close range/point blank scenarios. Unless I'm caught with my pants down, I will ADS & burst appropriately.

Also, titanium springs :3
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Best of epic quotes :D

Spoiler Spoiler

Just realized it's 4/20 tomorrow

Thanks for the heads up!
*Logs out of Symthic in preparation*

Hardline is a fun and sometimes silly Cops and Robbers sorta thing and I think that's great. Or it would be if it didn't suck.

>littlebird passanger, semi-auto frag rounds
>gunship OP

Meanwhile at DICE-headquarters during BF4's release:

I'm pretty sure there's a massive post-it on every desk "DON'T FUCKING TOUCH ANYTHING THAT IS ACTUALLY DOING WHAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE DOING"

"Hey guys remember how stupid prenerf mav was?"

"Lets add c4 to it."

The World Champion went to China once.

They called me a Gweilo.

So I kicked a big fucking hole in their wall and let all the Mongolians in.

just thought I'd share.

The thought of Assaults running out of ACE 23 rounds mid firefight, Engineers facing the rear of an unaware MBT with no rockets left, Recons unable to...Whatever the fuck they do. These are the things that keep me up at night ;(

About hunturk:
I don't know what's funnier, the video itself of the fact that an unlisted video has more views than most of your normal videos :P


You just live to hit people upside the noggin with a Math Bomb, don't you?

[context] Maybe it's the UK's overly aggressive porn filter at work. After all, it does have the word "monkey" in it and monkeys have been known to have sex so...

Previously, at DICE HQ:
"Ok guys, the password is "epic dream worlds"; everyone take a letter and do your best to turn it into into something random that we can put into a picture!"

I assume a functional game (BF4) also.

*pinches cheeks*
So cute!

But but but

He's a Youtuber ;(

There's no way he doesn't know what he's talking about


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Saturday, April 18th 2015, 8:03pm

I burst at almost every range HOWEVER I don't use the same burst length!
Point blank: Open the taps
Close range: 10 round bursts
Mid range: 5 round bursts
Long range and beyond: 2 round bursts of single shot

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Saturday, April 18th 2015, 11:45pm

You missed the "Bursting? Wussat?" option.
From the little experience I had with automatic weapons I'd say I burst already at 15m-ish meters. More precisely at range when weapon's spread really begins to hurt after third/fourth round.
Links to users' thread list who have made analytical/statistical/mathematical/cool posts on Symthic:
  • 3VerstsNorth - Analysis of game mechanics in BF4 (tickrates, effects of tickrate, etc)
  • InterimAegis - Weapon comparisons/scoring.
  • leptis - Analysis of shotguns, recoil, recoil control and air drag.
  • Veritable - Scoring of BF4/BF1 firearms in terms of usability, firing and other mechanics.
  • pmax - Statistical analysis of BF4 players/games.
  • Miffyli - Random statistical analysis of BF4 battlereports/players and kill-distances. (list is cluttered with other threads).
Sorry if your name wasn't on the list, I honestly can't recall all names : ( . Nudge me if you want to be included

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Saturday, April 18th 2015, 11:54pm

HBAR + Stubby user reporting in. Not 75m for all weapons of course, but relative to the other options it makes sense.
Who Enjoys, Wins


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Saturday, April 18th 2015, 11:58pm

You missed the "Bursting? Wussat?" option.

Also missed the 'I only use shotguns' and 'ROBIN FUCKING HOOD' options :D

Everybody's Favourite Worthless Support and LMG Fan! :thumbsup:

Song currently stuck in my head is: Red Cold River by Breaking Benjamin!