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  • "JIkahn" started this thread

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: Nov 21st 2014

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Friday, November 21st 2014, 2:35pm

Looking for vehicle macro strategy/positioning guides

I've only logged around 150 hours in this game. I've just finished all the assignment weapon unlocks (minus phantom) and want to learn more about vehicle strategy. I don't really need micro details like "How to fight another tank", or "How to fight another jet". I would like to find a guide or guides that describes macro strategies, especially guidelines for positioning with each vehicle in relation to the team. I am looking for something that explains how to make the best use of a vehicle in the grand scheme of things. What exactly each vehicle's role is in a public game and when that role might change? I realize this sounds like obvious knowledge to most of you guys.

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Friday, November 21st 2014, 8:18pm

It's not that obvious and many players fail to understand what the role of each vehicle should be. Also, it's up to debate what is the exact best role as it depends on one's style too and what other players, both friendly and enemy, are doing at the moment. To the point.. I don't know of any guides but it's something you can learn by watching other players play (or asking them). Maybe if you asked for a specific vehicles you could get some pointers here. There are a lot of vehicles and maps with different combinations
This is where I'm coming from: Clicky

Zer0Cod3x

Can't get a title

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Location: The Land of Multitudinous Kangaroos

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Saturday, November 22nd 2014, 1:05am

Depends on what vehicle, map, game mode, teammates and enemies and their effectiveness. Please clarify.
something something Model 8 bestgun


How to ice an A-91

Next, wanna try adding a guy that you KNOW is bad, and just testing to see that? Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

PP-2000 added. Y'know, it's not that bad....

Yes, it comes in last so far, but that is mostly because I'm making it shoot at 100m ADS - Not Moving as one of the criteria. Even then, between 50-100m Not Moving, when you include Useability, it is only 1.37% worse than the MTAR-21. Within 50m then it even beats the A-91.

Have a look, vs. the A-91 Carbine:




Using it with Muzzle Brake and Compensator is a wash in terms of overall performance. Comp is SLIGHTLY more accurate, while MB is SLIGHTLY more easy to use. Their overall scores are basically tied, with MB just ahead. I guess either can be recommended.

But... You can't be counting for the fact that it takes 9 bullets to kill at "long" range... Don't you dare tell me my A-91 is worse than a 9 BTK 650 RPM mediocre PDW.

Also. Just go heavy barrel. The recoil is low enough.

Well, technically...

Comparing a PP2K with HB and an A-91 with comp and stubby (as you suggested in an earlier post), at 50m not moving, the A-91 is only better by 4 damage per hitrate. While at 75m and 100m, surprisingly the PP2K does better than the A-91 (I'm pretty damn surprised as well).

And 10m and 50m moving the PP2K also does more damage per hitrate than the A-91. At 25m the A-91 is only better by about half a bullet's damage as well.

In addition, the PP2K has a much larger mag size and substantially less recoil. And it looks hella awesome. So comparing the A-91 to a PDW is of some worth after all, as the PP2K is better (technically, not practically) than the A-91.

Mind blown.

I... I...

*cries in a corner*

Zer0Cod3x explained it very well. If you look at the raw numbers right here on Symthic Comparison, you can see how that happened:

A-91 vs PP-2000 | BF4 Weapon Comparison | Symthic

A-91's "23%" RPM advantage only afforded it 1 extra round.

Reload times are wash.

Velocities are wash.

V-Recoil are wash (and this is HBar on PP2k vs. A-91 without).

Hipfire and ADS - Moving are better on the PP2k, but it's a PDW and not the surprising part.

The surprising part is that, as equipped (and we see above that PP2k HBar has almost same V-Recoil as A-91 without HBar so why not?), the PDW performs better at 50 - 100m than a bloody Carbine. Why?

H-Recoil Spread, 0.525 vs. 0.45, advantage PP2k.

SIPS, 42% better on the PP2k.

And here is the most important part. ADS - Not Moving Spread, 0.35 vs. 0.2, 43% improvement.

Without HBar then of course the PP2k loses, which is why when I add all the attachments together for an Overall Ranking, it would slot below the A-91. Run HBar on it, though, then... I'm sorry

@Veritable
@Zer0Cod3x
I... I...
But...
Wha...
I AM HAVING AN EXISTENTIAL CRISIS IN SCHOOL BECAUSE OF YOU TWO.

FUCK YOU NERDS AND YOUR FANCY NUMBERS

SEXY RUSSIAN BULLPUPS FTW.

In all seriousness, thank you both so much for giving me the numbers. I still don't want to accept them. You have led the horse to water. I still need to drink.


  • "JIkahn" started this thread

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Saturday, November 22nd 2014, 4:49am

Ok lets start with battle tanks then. In general where should I be in relation to my teammates? It seems like I should be with at least a squad sized number of aggressive infantry that is attacking or defending or around the other vehicles, but never really out in front. Is it better for tanks to support the bulk of the infantry or is it better for them do something else?

In the helicopters, sometimes it seems like the entire other team is full of engineers with heatseekers. What is the best way to deal with that nightmare? Should I play super cautiously, hanging within safe territory?
Does the scout chopper stack up well versus the attack chopper in air to air, or is that a losing battle?

The stealth jet. When do I carry laser guided missiles and when do I carry air to air missiles? So far it seems like it's almost always best to carry laser guided missiles.

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Saturday, November 22nd 2014, 5:41am

Drive the skid loader like you stole it.

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Saturday, November 22nd 2014, 6:10am

Ok lets start with battle tanks then. In general where should I be in relation to my teammates? It seems like I should be with at least a squad sized number of aggressive infantry that is attacking or defending or around the other vehicles, but never really out in front. Is it better for tanks to support the bulk of the infantry or is it better for them do something else?

In general it's safer and more effective to just support your infantry to take / defend flags. This means there's less of a chance to get flanked by engineers/C4 and a higher chance to get repaired by someone around you, or just safer in general for your gunner to hop out and repair. Tanking into flags (no pun intended) solo is risky cause a single backshot already disables you for a long time and zaps half your health which is pretty often a death sentences. Also it can be a good idea to hunt down and destroy the enemy MAA (or at least annoy it, push it back or weaken it for your aircraft to finish off), it can be a huge asset if you have air support that is being denied by it. In general you can win or at least force a standoff with any tanks by using cover, repairs and distance. When moving around more defensively, find good power positions, akin to those on infantry only maps, from which you can cover multiple lanes from advancing infantry or vehicles, with good nearby accessible cover.

Quoted

In the helicopters, sometimes it seems like the entire other team is full of engineers with heatseekers. What is the best way to deal with that nightmare? Should I play super cautiously, hanging within safe territory?
Does the scout chopper stack up well versus the attack chopper in air to air, or is that a losing battle?

Yes, yry to use cover or find another part of the map out of range of those engineers until they get tired or killed and switch to something else. If they are really insistent and most of the map airspace gets denied by stingers well.. then you're usually checkmated and you have to wait for your infantry / armor to do their bit. It's rare but it happens as you start to go on killstreaks that involve more and more players. Especially since the scout is mostly racking up infy kills.
In a similar scenario with the attack heli, you should just try staying at range. It reduces your effectiveness but you can still do stuff using the very long range capabilities the AH has with the pods, TV and autocannon. You can still be plenty effective against armor and defend a bunch of flags from a good distance.
Regarding scout vs AH fights: atm and in general, a good scout heli pilot will usually shit all over an AH crew. The scout has very good range, miniguns do a decent amount of damage, have unlimited ammo, high muzzle, the scout is a smaller and more agile target and the scout has high damage heatseekers. This is without even taking into account onboard repairs + stingers, in which case the AH has no choice but to run. The AH obviously has a chance because it has very high damage weapons, but the TV is very easy to dodge, pods are very awkward to aim cause of bone spawn and odd velocity over distance plots. The autocannon is your best bet but the tracer rounds on it are not very reliable and the muzzle velocity is not ideal against such a small and agile target. Dps is very good though if you can manage high accuracy.

Quoted

The stealth jet. When do I carry laser guided missiles and when do I carry air to air missiles? So far it seems like it's almost always best to carry laser guided missiles.

In general you won't need A2A missiles unless you're up against a scout with a full AA setup (ECM, radar, HS + repairs + stingers), in which case you'll probably have to resort to ARMs to get the stun and then the finish. LGMs are very good otherwise, decent damage and very good for spotting for the rest of your team
This is where I'm coming from: Clicky

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Friday, November 28th 2014, 10:45pm

I spend most of my time in armor. This may be a bit rudimentary, but the tank's role is vs other vehicles, and IFVs (with zuni) are great against infantry.


General guidelines:
1. Stay behind your infantry's advance. When you and your infantry are supporting each other, you don't get flanked, and have a *lot* of firepower backing them up. Perfect symbiotic relationship.
2. Face front armor towards the threat, watch that minimap, and if things get hot, pull behind your lines and repair yourself. Having a tank retreat for 20s is much preferable to waiting 90 for another one to spawn.
3. Learn the drop of your shells (also sabot shell == best shell imho). Long range combat is where the experienced gain a huge advantage

If my teammates are timid, I generally try to stall enemy armor's advance at a chokepoint, and hope that my team backfills objectives behind me. Be warned, if you're successful you *will* eventually get blitzed. Get good at driving full speed in reverse. Good ole Mongolian retreat :P