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: Dec 24th 2011

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21

Monday, December 19th 2016, 12:20am

The ricochet system needs to go, or it at least needs major tweaking. Square-on hits to a tank should NOT ricochet off the bloody thing! It happens too frequently.

Really, it's the A7V that needs to be looked at the most. The Mark V has many, large vulnerable points that are quite easy to disable while the FT-17 has the lowest amount of health. The A7V should be the most armored tank due to its (recommended) crew size. However, with its increased health aside, it can cover every single angle while the vulnerable points are just too damn small (in comparison to the other tanks). It's difficult for one stormtrooper to take out just a single MG on the thing (when there may be up to five more weapons left from where that came from).

Personally, I wouldn't know how to quite address vehicle balance since that's not my forte, but I do think DICE could start by looking at the emergency repair system. That's just a cheap feature all-around on vehicles.

VincentNZ

Holy War? No Thanks.

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: Jul 25th 2013

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22

Monday, December 19th 2016, 12:29am

That is what I am saying, the whole thing is built to have shots ricochet. Should be way more forgiving, especially since nobody knows where to best hit any tank.

And emergency repair obviously is something that should have never made it into the game in the first place. But we have it now, and it will never go, you can only tweak the values.

I do not see the teamplay value though if the driver is also the gunner, this is the root of all that A7 using. Now if gunner and driver separated then we would have teamplay for the tanks as well, as they are now, beside the landship, a one-man show.

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23

Monday, December 19th 2016, 12:29am

@tankmayvin

Well perhaps I just get unlucky. Constantly. I do respect your opinions and trust your judgment, so in the right situations I'm sure it is possible that Assaults are properly reacting to armored vehicles with moderate coordination. I just have not personally witnessed this phenomenon on Conquest or Rush. It happens plenty in Operations due to the sheer volume and concentration of Assaults though.

@BleedingUranium

Your proposal sounds ideal. BF3 and BF4 had the Fire Extinguisher ability for both armored vehicles and aircraft while excluding a health increase. Track repairs in tanks and wing repairs in planes should not replenish any amount of health and simply restore control to the vehicle. Also, I think the other repair function may be Emergency repair but that may only apply to planes.
To Aim Assist or not to Aim Assist, that is the question.

Nope. Aim Assist or bust; here's why:

Default Aim Assist Data

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Prepare your laughbox

the Sebstalder is quiet good since it can 3hit kill at any distanc ,but In my opinion i actually thikn the sweeper is better, its got a really really fast firerate that can beat alll those Noobmaticos, Helregall adn shitguns in close quarters , and its also really accurate out to like l;ong range,. overall great allround gun, jsut my 2$ tho


Zer0Cod3x

Can't get a title

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: Dec 23rd 2013

Platform: Xbox One

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24

Monday, December 19th 2016, 12:30am

The ricochet system needs to go, or it at least needs major tweaking. Square-on hits to a tank should NOT ricochet off the bloody thing! It happens too frequently.

Evidently you're not hitting the tank square on then.
something something Model 8 bestgun


How to ice an A-91

Next, wanna try adding a guy that you KNOW is bad, and just testing to see that? Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

Example: PP-2000 (god I so wanna love this gun, and yet...)

PP-2000 added. Y'know, it's not that bad....

Yes, it comes in last so far, but that is mostly because I'm making it shoot at 100m ADS - Not Moving as one of the criteria. Even then, between 50-100m Not Moving, when you include Useability, it is only 1.37% worse than the MTAR-21. Within 50m then it even beats the A-91.

Have a look, vs. the A-91 Carbine:




Using it with Muzzle Brake and Compensator is a wash in terms of overall performance. Comp is SLIGHTLY more accurate, while MB is SLIGHTLY more easy to use. Their overall scores are basically tied, with MB just ahead. I guess either can be recommended.

But... You can't be counting for the fact that it takes 9 bullets to kill at "long" range... Don't you dare tell me my A-91 is worse than a 9 BTK 650 RPM mediocre PDW.

Also. Just go heavy barrel. The recoil is low enough.

Well, technically...

Comparing a PP2K with HB and an A-91 with comp and stubby (as you suggested in an earlier post), at 50m not moving, the A-91 is only better by 4 damage per hitrate. While at 75m and 100m, surprisingly the PP2K does better than the A-91 (I'm pretty damn surprised as well).

And 10m and 50m moving the PP2K also does more damage per hitrate than the A-91. At 25m the A-91 is only better by about half a bullet's damage as well.

In addition, the PP2K has a much larger mag size and substantially less recoil. And it looks hella awesome. So comparing the A-91 to a PDW is of some worth after all, as the PP2K is better (technically, not practically) than the A-91.

Mind blown.

I... I...

*cries in a corner*

Zer0Cod3x explained it very well. If you look at the raw numbers right here on Symthic Comparison, you can see how that happened:

A-91 vs PP-2000 | BF4 Weapon Comparison | Symthic

A-91's "23%" RPM advantage only afforded it 1 extra round.

Reload times are wash.

Velocities are wash.

V-Recoil are wash (and this is HBar on PP2k vs. A-91 without).

Hipfire and ADS - Moving are better on the PP2k, but it's a PDW and not the surprising part.

The surprising part is that, as equipped (and we see above that PP2k HBar has almost same V-Recoil as A-91 without HBar so why not?), the PDW performs better at 50 - 100m than a bloody Carbine. Why?

H-Recoil Spread, 0.525 vs. 0.45, advantage PP2k.

SIPS, 42% better on the PP2k.

And here is the most important part. ADS - Not Moving Spread, 0.35 vs. 0.2, 43% improvement.

Without HBar then of course the PP2k loses, which is why when I add all the attachments together for an Overall Ranking, it would slot below the A-91. Run HBar on it, though, then... I'm sorry

@Veritable
@Zer0Cod3x
I... I...
But...
Wha...
I AM HAVING AN EXISTENTIAL CRISIS IN SCHOOL BECAUSE OF YOU TWO.

FUCK YOU NERDS AND YOUR FANCY NUMBERS

SEXY RUSSIAN BULLPUPS FTW.

In all seriousness, thank you both so much for giving me the numbers. I still don't want to accept them. You have led the horse to water. I still need to drink.


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25

Monday, December 19th 2016, 12:43am

The ricochet system needs to go, or it at least needs major tweaking. Square-on hits to a tank should NOT ricochet off the bloody thing! It happens too frequently.

Really, it's the A7V that needs to be looked at the most. The Mark V has many, large vulnerable points that are quite easy to disable while the FT-17 has the lowest amount of health. The A7V should be the most armored tank due to its (recommended) crew size. However, with its increased health aside, it can cover every single angle while the vulnerable points are just too damn small (in comparison to the other tanks). It's difficult for one stormtrooper to take out just a single MG on the thing (when there may be up to five more weapons left from where that came from).

Personally, I wouldn't know how to quite address vehicle balance since that's not my forte, but I do think DICE could start by looking at the emergency repair system. That's just a cheap feature all-around on vehicles.

You're confusing ricochet with dusting. The former is a mechanic, the latter is a netcode or engine glitch that has plagued BF in its various incarnations for over a decade.

I've found the ricochet mechanic to be very reliable. If you're getting square hits and not seeing a clear ricochet and doing say 2 dmg you're probably dusting.

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26

Monday, December 19th 2016, 12:56am

@tankmayvin

Well perhaps I just get unlucky. Constantly. I do respect your opinions and trust your judgment, so in the right situations I'm sure it is possible that Assaults are properly reacting to armored vehicles with moderate coordination. I just have not personally witnessed this phenomenon on Conquest or Rush. It happens plenty in Operations due to the sheer volume and concentration of Assaults though.

@BleedingUranium

Your proposal sounds ideal. BF3 and BF4 had the Fire Extinguisher ability for both armored vehicles and aircraft while excluding a health increase. Track repairs in tanks and wing repairs in planes should not replenish any amount of health and simply restore control to the vehicle. Also, I think the other repair function may be Emergency repair but that may only apply to planes.
Are you playing PC or console? How many players?

I only play PC, 64 man conquest. So there is a very high player density and plenty of assaults running everywhere.

Balancing still has to be done around some sort of optimal competency of say a squad actually working together over voip. Otherwise you end up with something that will be over powered.

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: Apr 26th 2013

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27

Monday, December 19th 2016, 1:14am

Playstation 4 with 64 players. I am sure the quality and adequacy of the player base on PC surpasses that of console. I cannot trust a collection Blueberry to do anything properly anymore. I need to find a reliable squad of players to communicate with as it is becoming unbearably frustrating.
To Aim Assist or not to Aim Assist, that is the question.

Nope. Aim Assist or bust; here's why:

Default Aim Assist Data

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Prepare your laughbox

the Sebstalder is quiet good since it can 3hit kill at any distanc ,but In my opinion i actually thikn the sweeper is better, its got a really really fast firerate that can beat alll those Noobmaticos, Helregall adn shitguns in close quarters , and its also really accurate out to like l;ong range,. overall great allround gun, jsut my 2$ tho


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: Dec 2nd 2013

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28

Monday, December 19th 2016, 1:23am

The rocket gun deals basically the same sort of damage as the non-specialized AT guns (Breakthrough, arty truck). What more do you want? Half the team at any time is running around with one of them.

You shouldn't be rewarded for firing rockets in clear line of sight of the tank and then not re-positioning after that with derp-level damage.

People seem to forget they are playing a squad and team based game when it's convenient to do so.
I run Artillery Truck if I want to get things done on a shitty team getting bullied by tanks, and I can tell you straight up that it does way more than AT Rockets. A blow on an A7V from an Arty Truck will do 24-35 damage, while an AT Rocket will do anywhere from 16-22 damage

For all the trouble it takes to deploy one (finding a surface that cooperates with you, having to prone and be exposed, proning and then being forced into standing because you did so on an uneven surface), it does really shit damage. That's not counting if the server doesn't think you're "dusting" the tank or you ricochet because the tank turned as you shoot

This recent patch with the "lol your team's tank(s) died in the initial map skirmish? Now the other team gets 1-2 extra tanks and you don't get any until they're killed!" is just flat out infuriating by itself to deal with, and it exacerbates how this iteration of the series has the poorest infantry/vehicle balance I've ever played (started in BC2).

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29

Monday, December 19th 2016, 1:43am

The rocket gun deals basically the same sort of damage as the non-specialized AT guns (Breakthrough, arty truck). What more do you want? Half the team at any time is running around with one of them.

You shouldn't be rewarded for firing rockets in clear line of sight of the tank and then not re-positioning after that with derp-level damage.

People seem to forget they are playing a squad and team based game when it's convenient to do so.
I run Artillery Truck if I want to get things done on a shitty team getting bullied by tanks, and I can tell you straight up that it does way more than AT Rockets. A blow on an A7V from an Arty Truck will do 24-35 damage, while an AT Rocket will do anywhere from 16-22 damage
For all the trouble it takes to deploy one (finding a surface that cooperates with you, having to prone and be exposed, proning and then being forced into standing because you did so on an uneven surface), it does really shit damage. That's not counting if the server doesn't think you're "dusting" the tank or you ricochet because the tank turned as you shoot
This recent patch with the "lol your team's tank(s) died in the initial map skirmish? Now the other team gets 1-2 extra tanks and you don't get any until they're killed!" is just flat out infuriating by itself to deal with, and it exacerbates how this iteration of the series has the poorest infantry/vehicle balance I've ever played (started in BC2).
You misread my post. I said that the non-specialized tank guns do similar damage as the rocket. Ie the 57 mm on the landships and the Assault/flame as well as the 37mm on the FT.

The breakthrough tank and the arty truck are specialized guns. So is the FT howitzer. You pay for that extra anti-tank firepower either in terribly anti infantry capability or with a shittier vehicle.

I've definitely been on the receiving end of this "lol, no tank 4 u!!!!" bug as well. But it has nothing to do with tank balance otherwise.

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30

Monday, December 19th 2016, 9:33am

Nope, ricochet is wonky as hell. It costed my team our A7V and the win on the last M-COM of Suez Rush when the enemy rolled up onto me with their own A7V. We were in close proximity, I took aim at the enemy tank's cannon, watched my shell impact directly into the enemy's cannon, seen the shell fly straight up into the air, heard the whizzing sound, and only inflicted two damage.



Speaking of the AT Rocket Gun, what constantly irritates me is that you can't deploy it on wooden fences. It makes absolutely zero sense, seeing as those fences seem to be just the perfect height to deploy the weapon. I think we need a variant of the AT Rocket Gun that has a longer tripod (like the actual thing). Instead of using the ground or a waist-high object to deploy it, this variant would be deployed on the ground in the open (either standing or crouching). It would work somewhat like the TOW/Kornet emplacements in Battlefield 3 and Battlefield 4. The advantages of this variant would be better traverse and elevation while deployed, less reliance on a piece of cover or object, better clearance of hills and rocks out in the open, and overall (hopefully) less finickiness. However, the key disadvantage would be that you'd be even more exposed (in most cases) than if you were using the current version.