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DeathOfTheDodo

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1

Tuesday, April 7th 2015, 5:45pm

Carbines vs Assault Rifles: Balancing

Currently in Hardline, after purchasing a full AR for the operator class there is little reason to go back to a Carbine aside from hipfire and recoil patterns- given that recoil control isn't exactly an advanced technique, this makes Carbines fairly redundant. So, what can be done about this?
Nerfing the ARs needs to happen regardless of what is done to the carbines, but there is the potential to make the choice between the two more interesting.

Here is my suggestion:


Differentiate the weapon classes based on effective range, and almost reverse their current stats.

o Give carbines the 28 Max damage out to 30m with a dropoff to 15 at 60m, increase Carbine recoil to be closer to current ARs (medium-high vertical recoil with lower horizontal), decrease minimum ADS spread, but increase maximum ADS spread.
o Give ARs 25 max damage out to 30m, with a dropoff to 20 at 100m, modify recoil to be closer to BF4 ARs, intermediate vertical with a bit more horizontal to promote bursting.

This will make Carbines the ideal choice for close-range maps without increasing their effectiveness at range more than current levels, and make ARs more viable at long range without sacrificing too much at close range.

Thoughts?
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Tuesday, April 7th 2015, 6:26pm

Currently carbines are 5 hit kills up close more often than not while Assault rifles are (barring Armored Inserts) always a 4HK, largely negating any advantage Carbines have over assault rifles.

I think upping the end damage of ARs and reversing the max damage is taking it too far, though. They're fine being 6HK at range while carbines are 7HK. The AKM should retain its lower BTK at range compared to other assault rifles under all circumstances (excl. headshots).

I think it'd probably be fine if carbines were upped to 28 max OR assault rifles backed down to 25. Carbines have awesome hipfire, far better than in BF4, rivalling even the PDWs. Giving them a more reliable BTK up close would make them far more viable.

Also, could we please not have assault rifles use carbine ammo? The L85A2 and ARM are full sized guns, one being a bullpup with a 20 inch barrel (as long as the M16's), the other is actually an LSW with an even longer barrel.

We are talking about "as small as possible" changes here, right? A complete rework like Rezal promotes would certainly be more thorough at solving the game's balancing mess, but I'm not sure it's gonna happen.
Zormau - Battlelog / Battlefield 4

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Of course, this ignores the non-constant cross-sectional first moment of area across the chest as well as non-constant material properties of the boob; it would be difficult to perform a more detailed analysis (as in, I'd have to have a shape function AND I'd need to derive a function for elastic modulus as a function of lateral breast coordinate) but whatever. It's 2am and I'm lazy.


I always believed science should be very hands on experience.

You should also answer this question I had posed in that thread: Would you be willing to pay your surgeon more if he was going to use a chainsaw for the opening incision of surgery? Clearly using a chainsaw isn't truly suited for surgery but that doesn't really matter. If he's "skilled" enough to be able to use the wrong tools of the trade, he should be rewarded for that skill right?


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Tuesday, April 7th 2015, 6:31pm

one being a bullpup with a 20 inch barrel (as long as the M16's), the other is actually an LSW with an even longer barrel.
The devs probably didn't notice when they looked at all the secret reload animations rather than weapon balance.

OT: Making AR and carbine damage the same until AR dropoff ends, while carbines keep losing damage down to 7 BTK; and slightly buffing carbine hipfire should work fairly well.
[Aristocrat's Shoes]
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Teamwork is where players function by themselves, but their effectiveness is multiplied when they work together. Not a checklist of "did we bring a healer so we can start playing?"

Sheepnub

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Tuesday, April 7th 2015, 6:35pm

Give carbines to mechanic (operator alrdy has amazing ars anyway, they dont use the carbines at all) and give them a 25-15.4 damage pattern. Differentiate from there.

Problem solved
"I put aside a few sceptics, the types of decency in the history of philosophy: the rest haven't the slightest conception of intellectual integrity."
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Best of epic quotes :D

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Just realized it's 4/20 tomorrow


Thanks for the heads up!
*Logs out of Symthic in preparation*

Hardline is a fun and sometimes silly Cops and Robbers sorta thing and I think that's great. Or it would be if it didn't suck.

>littlebird passanger, semi-auto frag rounds
>gunship OP

Meanwhile at DICE-headquarters during BF4's release:

I'm pretty sure there's a massive post-it on every desk "DON'T FUCKING TOUCH ANYTHING THAT IS ACTUALLY DOING WHAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE DOING"

UCAV:
"Hey guys remember how stupid prenerf mav was?"

"Lets add c4 to it."

The World Champion went to China once.

They called me a Gweilo.

So I kicked a big fucking hole in their wall and let all the Mongolians in.

just thought I'd share.


The thought of Assaults running out of ACE 23 rounds mid firefight, Engineers facing the rear of an unaware MBT with no rockets left, Recons unable to...Whatever the fuck they do. These are the things that keep me up at night ;(


About hunturk:
I don't know what's funnier, the video itself of the fact that an unlisted video has more views than most of your normal videos :P

...


You just live to hit people upside the noggin with a Math Bomb, don't you?

[context] Maybe it's the UK's overly aggressive porn filter at work. After all, it does have the word "monkey" in it and monkeys have been known to have sex so...


Previously, at DICE HQ:
"Ok guys, the password is "epic dream worlds"; everyone take a letter and do your best to turn it into into something random that we can put into a picture!"


I assume a functional game (BF4) also.

Aww!
*pinches cheeks*
So cute!


But but but

He's a Youtuber ;(

There's no way he doesn't know what he's talking about


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Tuesday, April 7th 2015, 6:43pm

one being a bullpup with a 20 inch barrel (as long as the M16's), the other is actually an LSW with an even longer barrel.
The devs probably didn't notice when they looked at all the secret reload animations rather than weapon balance.

OT: Making AR and carbine damage the same until AR dropoff ends, while carbines keep losing damage down to 7 BTK; and slightly buffing carbine hipfire should work fairly well.


You do realize how accurate carbine hipfire currently is, right? BF: Hardline: AKS-74u vs G36C vs ARM vs SG553 vs M416 | BF: Hardline Multi-Weapon Comparison | Symthic
Making it more homogenous across the board (srsly, what's up with the AKU?) so that they're all like the G36C, sure, but buffing them?
Zormau - Battlelog / Battlefield 4

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Of course, this ignores the non-constant cross-sectional first moment of area across the chest as well as non-constant material properties of the boob; it would be difficult to perform a more detailed analysis (as in, I'd have to have a shape function AND I'd need to derive a function for elastic modulus as a function of lateral breast coordinate) but whatever. It's 2am and I'm lazy.


I always believed science should be very hands on experience.

You should also answer this question I had posed in that thread: Would you be willing to pay your surgeon more if he was going to use a chainsaw for the opening incision of surgery? Clearly using a chainsaw isn't truly suited for surgery but that doesn't really matter. If he's "skilled" enough to be able to use the wrong tools of the trade, he should be rewarded for that skill right?


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Tuesday, April 7th 2015, 6:46pm

was thinking like 1.5/2.25 for all (actual) carbines and better SIPS in hipfire, while ARs could get better SIPS in ADS.
[Aristocrat's Shoes]
TLDR -
Teamwork is where players function by themselves, but their effectiveness is multiplied when they work together. Not a checklist of "did we bring a healer so we can start playing?"

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Tuesday, April 7th 2015, 6:58pm

Let's not forget a reasonable damage model for the RO933. Assault rifle spread and recoil with less than PDW damage.

Edit: I also just remembered: while the G36C really does have potential it has the same awful "sight moves off center when strafing" error it had in BF4. Not cool. Also applies to some other guns to varying degrees.
Zormau - Battlelog / Battlefield 4

Memorable quotes not taken yet:


Of course, this ignores the non-constant cross-sectional first moment of area across the chest as well as non-constant material properties of the boob; it would be difficult to perform a more detailed analysis (as in, I'd have to have a shape function AND I'd need to derive a function for elastic modulus as a function of lateral breast coordinate) but whatever. It's 2am and I'm lazy.


I always believed science should be very hands on experience.

You should also answer this question I had posed in that thread: Would you be willing to pay your surgeon more if he was going to use a chainsaw for the opening incision of surgery? Clearly using a chainsaw isn't truly suited for surgery but that doesn't really matter. If he's "skilled" enough to be able to use the wrong tools of the trade, he should be rewarded for that skill right?

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Zormau" (Apr 7th 2015, 7:04pm)


DeathOfTheDodo

Veni, SMAW, Vici

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  • "DeathOfTheDodo" started this thread

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Tuesday, April 7th 2015, 7:38pm

Give carbines to mechanic (operator alrdy has amazing ars anyway, they dont use the carbines at all) and give them a 25-15.4 damage pattern. Differentiate from there.

Problem solved


Eh. PDWs are very, very good at what they do already and the maps in Hardline cater to them a lot more than BF4. I'd rather see a Carbine/DMR swap than Operator only having 5 primary weapon options.


Also, could we please not have assault rifles use carbine ammo? The L85A2 and ARM are full sized guns, one being a bullpup with a 20 inch barrel (as long as the M16's), the other is actually an LSW with an even longer barrel.


Yeah. AFAIK Thad tweeted that the ARM is getting the M16 bullet, but no word on the L85A2- which IMO should be the only one with that damage model.


The RO933 needs help no matter what, I think we can all agree on that.

Ideally, Carbines should be better at close-mid, ARs should be better at mid-mid long, and they should be about equal at mid range.
[SYM]Deathofthedodo
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Tuesday, April 7th 2015, 7:45pm


Eh. PDWs are very, very good at what they do

If by "PDW" you mean the K10, UMP and MPX, then yes. The MP5K has a too small magazine, the P90 has ludicrous accuracy and damage issues, the FMG9 is basically a much worse K10, the UZI and M/45 are worthless pieces of junk.
Zormau - Battlelog / Battlefield 4

Memorable quotes not taken yet:


Of course, this ignores the non-constant cross-sectional first moment of area across the chest as well as non-constant material properties of the boob; it would be difficult to perform a more detailed analysis (as in, I'd have to have a shape function AND I'd need to derive a function for elastic modulus as a function of lateral breast coordinate) but whatever. It's 2am and I'm lazy.


I always believed science should be very hands on experience.

You should also answer this question I had posed in that thread: Would you be willing to pay your surgeon more if he was going to use a chainsaw for the opening incision of surgery? Clearly using a chainsaw isn't truly suited for surgery but that doesn't really matter. If he's "skilled" enough to be able to use the wrong tools of the trade, he should be rewarded for that skill right?


DeathOfTheDodo

Veni, SMAW, Vici

(863)

  • "DeathOfTheDodo" started this thread

Posts: 1,829

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Tuesday, April 7th 2015, 7:47pm


Eh. PDWs are very, very good at what they do

If by "PDW" you mean the K10, UMP and MPX, then yes. The MP5K has a too small magazine, the P90 has ludicrous accuracy and damage issues, the FMG9 is basically a much worse K10, the UZI and M/45 are worthless pieces of junk.


And Hardline's balancing... isn't balanced. The FMG9 actually fucking destroys BTW if you haven't used it yet. My point is that PDWs, were they ALL balanced correctly, are in a good place already.
[SYM]Deathofthedodo
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