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  • "Zormau" started this thread

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Sunday, April 12th 2015, 3:07am

Heavy Barrel in multi comparison

Looking for example here: BF: Hardline: FMG9 vs FMG9 vs FMG9 vs FMG9 vs FMG9 | BF: Hardline Multi-Weapon Comparison | Symthic

The attachment data sais that it increases it by 50%, so the resulting value should be (Base ADS penalty * ergo grip multiplier * heavy barrel multiplier) which would be 0.8*0.5*1.5 = 0.6

Where does that 0.65 come from and why is the penalty for the other configurations in that comparison not 0.4?

@Miffyli
Zormau - Battlelog / Battlefield 4

Memorable quotes not taken yet:


Of course, this ignores the non-constant cross-sectional first moment of area across the chest as well as non-constant material properties of the boob; it would be difficult to perform a more detailed analysis (as in, I'd have to have a shape function AND I'd need to derive a function for elastic modulus as a function of lateral breast coordinate) but whatever. It's 2am and I'm lazy.


I always believed science should be very hands on experience.

You should also answer this question I had posed in that thread: Would you be willing to pay your surgeon more if he was going to use a chainsaw for the opening incision of surgery? Clearly using a chainsaw isn't truly suited for surgery but that doesn't really matter. If he's "skilled" enough to be able to use the wrong tools of the trade, he should be rewarded for that skill right?


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Wednesday, April 15th 2015, 9:15pm

it increases the movement penalty, not the resultant moving ADS spread. If the ADS spread is 0.4 and the resultant ADS moving spread is 0.8, your ADS movement penalty is 0.4. This is why the others have a 0.6 ADS while moving (0.4 penalty is halved by vert grip for a resultant ADS moving spread of 0.6)

It gets funny with the heavy barrel because the ADS spread also decreases which changes your penalty and the HB is assigned before the vert stats.

No attach
0.4 ADS stationary
0.4 penalty
0.8 ADS while moving

HB
0.2 ADS stationary (50% of 0.4)
0.9 penalty (0.8 - 0.2 = 0.6 * 150%)
1.1 ADS while moving

HB + Vert
0.2 ADS stationary
0.45 penalty (50% of 0.9)
0.65 ADS while moving

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Thursday, April 16th 2015, 7:08pm

so "spread penalty" is the increase of spread while moving?

NoctyrneSAGA

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Thursday, April 16th 2015, 7:13pm

so "spread penalty" is the increase of spread while moving?


This calculation is assuming that BFH uses the same system as BF4.

The spread penalty is indeed how much larger your spread gets when moving compared to standing still and is derived from the difference between the raw moving spread listed in the stats and your stationary spread.

However, BFH is not guaranteed to use the same system as BF4.
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This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "NoctyrneSAGA" (Apr 16th 2015, 7:28pm)


Miffyli

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Thursday, April 16th 2015, 7:54pm

Movement calculations are bit wonky as there are are strafing modifiers and speed modifier (I think) etc, but the values should be comparable.

Also sorry for delay in replay. I only now saw this thread... the quote thing didn't seem to work right, dunno why.
Links to users' thread list who have made analytical/statistical/mathematical/cool posts on Symthic:
  • 3VerstsNorth - Analysis of game mechanics in BF4 (tickrates, effects of tickrate, etc)
  • InterimAegis - Weapon comparisons/scoring.
  • leptis - Analysis of shotguns, recoil, recoil control and air drag.
  • Veritable - Scoring of BF4/BF1 firearms in terms of usability, firing and other mechanics.
  • pmax - Statistical analysis of BF4 players/games.
  • Miffyli - Random statistical analysis of BF4 battlereports/players and kill-distances. (list is cluttered with other threads).
Sorry if your name wasn't on the list, I honestly can't recall all names : ( . Nudge me if you want to be included

  • "Zormau" started this thread

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Thursday, April 16th 2015, 9:40pm

So the comparison system calculates what we assume to be the final moving spread? I wouldn't appreciate this.

It would be pretty odd if it were the same formula, as some guns like the ACWR (I think there were others?) would end up with the exact same moving spread as ADS.

Moving ADS spread values

ActualMoveMinSpread = ((MoveMinSpread - BaseMinSpread * [stationary spread mods]) * [moving spread mods]) + BaseMinSpread * [stationary spread mods]

((0.5 - 0.5 * 1) * 0.5) + 0.5 * 1 = 0.5 for the ACWR

@Atruste

A built-in additive system would explain the differences alright, but I haven't heard of such a thing being implemented, and even if I'd like to see the raw penalty values somewhere outside the bare files.
Zormau - Battlelog / Battlefield 4

Memorable quotes not taken yet:


Of course, this ignores the non-constant cross-sectional first moment of area across the chest as well as non-constant material properties of the boob; it would be difficult to perform a more detailed analysis (as in, I'd have to have a shape function AND I'd need to derive a function for elastic modulus as a function of lateral breast coordinate) but whatever. It's 2am and I'm lazy.


I always believed science should be very hands on experience.

You should also answer this question I had posed in that thread: Would you be willing to pay your surgeon more if he was going to use a chainsaw for the opening incision of surgery? Clearly using a chainsaw isn't truly suited for surgery but that doesn't really matter. If he's "skilled" enough to be able to use the wrong tools of the trade, he should be rewarded for that skill right?


NoctyrneSAGA

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Thursday, April 16th 2015, 9:41pm

@Zormau

yea, which is why I think Miffy's probably right about moving spread calculated as adding raw stationary and raw moving together.
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Passive Spotting is the future!

"Skill" may indeed be the most magical of words. Chant it well enough and any desire can be yours.

Are you a scrub?

If it flies, it dies™.

  • "Zormau" started this thread

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Thursday, April 16th 2015, 9:47pm

Funny also how the BF4 system would also make the ACW-R more accurate while moving with an ergo grip compared to standing.

((0.25 - 0.5 * 1) * 0.5) + 0.5 * 1 = 0.375 < 0.5 base ADS standing
Zormau - Battlelog / Battlefield 4

Memorable quotes not taken yet:


Of course, this ignores the non-constant cross-sectional first moment of area across the chest as well as non-constant material properties of the boob; it would be difficult to perform a more detailed analysis (as in, I'd have to have a shape function AND I'd need to derive a function for elastic modulus as a function of lateral breast coordinate) but whatever. It's 2am and I'm lazy.


I always believed science should be very hands on experience.

You should also answer this question I had posed in that thread: Would you be willing to pay your surgeon more if he was going to use a chainsaw for the opening incision of surgery? Clearly using a chainsaw isn't truly suited for surgery but that doesn't really matter. If he's "skilled" enough to be able to use the wrong tools of the trade, he should be rewarded for that skill right?

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Zormau" (Apr 16th 2015, 10:44pm)


Miffyli

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Thursday, April 16th 2015, 10:22pm

Funny also how the BF4 system would also make the ACW-R more accurate while moving with an ergo grip compared to standing.

((0.25 - 0.5 * 1) * 0.5) + 0.5 * 1 = 0.375 < 0.5 base ADS standing

Errr where did you get those numbers from? for BF4 ACW-R has 0.8 minmoving while standing and for BFH it has 0.5 for both standing and stand moving.
Links to users' thread list who have made analytical/statistical/mathematical/cool posts on Symthic:
  • 3VerstsNorth - Analysis of game mechanics in BF4 (tickrates, effects of tickrate, etc)
  • InterimAegis - Weapon comparisons/scoring.
  • leptis - Analysis of shotguns, recoil, recoil control and air drag.
  • Veritable - Scoring of BF4/BF1 firearms in terms of usability, firing and other mechanics.
  • pmax - Statistical analysis of BF4 players/games.
  • Miffyli - Random statistical analysis of BF4 battlereports/players and kill-distances. (list is cluttered with other threads).
Sorry if your name wasn't on the list, I honestly can't recall all names : ( . Nudge me if you want to be included

  • "Zormau" started this thread

Posts: 1,437

Date of registration
: Jun 23rd 2012

Platform: PC

Location: Germany, Bavaria

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 12

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10

Thursday, April 16th 2015, 10:44pm

Funny also how the BF4 system would also make the ACW-R more accurate while moving with an ergo grip compared to standing.

((0.25 - 0.5 * 1) * 0.5) + 0.5 * 1 = 0.375 < 0.5 base ADS standing

Errr where did you get those numbers from? for BF4 ACW-R has 0.8 minmoving while standing and for BFH it has 0.5 for both standing and stand moving.

Right, I did that wrong.
It should be (for Hardline)

((0.5 - 0.5 * 1) * 0.5 {ADS moving speed} * 0.5 {vertical grip mod}) + 0.5 * 1 = 0.5

Right. Stays the same. Vertical grip is therefore a hipfire only accessory unless you also equip the heavy barrel in which case it would become

(0.5 - 0.5 * 0.5) * 0.5 * 0.5 * 1.5) + 0,5 * 0.5 = 0.34375 if I didn't type in something wrong.
Zormau - Battlelog / Battlefield 4

Memorable quotes not taken yet:


Of course, this ignores the non-constant cross-sectional first moment of area across the chest as well as non-constant material properties of the boob; it would be difficult to perform a more detailed analysis (as in, I'd have to have a shape function AND I'd need to derive a function for elastic modulus as a function of lateral breast coordinate) but whatever. It's 2am and I'm lazy.


I always believed science should be very hands on experience.

You should also answer this question I had posed in that thread: Would you be willing to pay your surgeon more if he was going to use a chainsaw for the opening incision of surgery? Clearly using a chainsaw isn't truly suited for surgery but that doesn't really matter. If he's "skilled" enough to be able to use the wrong tools of the trade, he should be rewarded for that skill right?