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This post by "Zormau" (Wednesday, March 25th 2015, 11:49pm) has been deleted by the author himself (Wednesday, March 25th 2015, 11:51pm) with the following reason: 3VerstsNorth said it much better.

NoctyrneSAGA

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Thursday, March 26th 2015, 12:01am

I don't have time to fill in all the ranges, but basically what I am getting at is this. If a caliber model is used; The ranges will stay the same, making RPM deciding.


How about no?

If the range or damage within each caliber class are tweaked; TTK with the same RPM may vary over range even within one weapon class. Criscrossing becomes interesting because you can use your knowledge of weapons used to outposition your enemy, outside of their "effective territory". Backing up or closing in more.

This leads to better tactical map useage. For example you could find a good spot for the M16A3 where you have lines of sight that are more than 25 m in range.


You can do this right now.

Spread increase and Hrecoil determine the accuracy of any given weapon in a caliber. While it's true that you can tap to alleviate spread increase's effects, that does not automatically mean that RPM is king. Are you seriously going to say that you will be able to take a FAMAS and tap fire it well enough to beat a SAR going at full auto? Please post some evidence of this. Just because it's possible does not mean it's effective enough to be considered. The so-called chance of missing is high enough that your effective DPS likely going to be drastically lower than what the SAR could do.

Because accuracy determines range of engagement, the game already has quite a bit of positioning required. You are required to move farther or closer dependimg on the effective ranges between your and your enemy's weapons. This sort of determinism can be said to be skillful and lead to competitive engagements as well. Rather than a simple shootout, both sides have to be mindful of how best they and their enemy will approach an engagemet. Gunplay has an added element of risk management to reduce misses by spread and Hrecoil. This demands more thinking beyond "fire."
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  • "absol_89" started this thread

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Thursday, March 26th 2015, 12:18am

Yes you both have a point. I just don't see the point of me overhauling the spread numbers when I cannot simulate the changes myself.
I cannot simulate hit rate for the 4th shot at 24 meters, VISCERAL GAMES CAN. Maybe some of the Symthic gurus can. But I can't do it.

If you are still offended by me going after theoretical TTK and cropping away the recoil and reload stats for the guns, fine. Be like that.
But you have still not shown any of your own calculations showing how to fix Viscerals Original Damage Model by tweaking recoil or spread.

How then, can you ask of me to run simulations that are outside the scope of a 12 hour unpaid damage model overhaul? Show me your calcs!
Pros go after the TTK numbers because they control every other uncertainties best they can. I get the SAR21 analogy, but hardline is different...

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Thursday, March 26th 2015, 12:21am

Zormau - Battlelog / Battlefield 4

Memorable quotes not taken yet:


Of course, this ignores the non-constant cross-sectional first moment of area across the chest as well as non-constant material properties of the boob; it would be difficult to perform a more detailed analysis (as in, I'd have to have a shape function AND I'd need to derive a function for elastic modulus as a function of lateral breast coordinate) but whatever. It's 2am and I'm lazy.


I always believed science should be very hands on experience.

You should also answer this question I had posed in that thread: Would you be willing to pay your surgeon more if he was going to use a chainsaw for the opening incision of surgery? Clearly using a chainsaw isn't truly suited for surgery but that doesn't really matter. If he's "skilled" enough to be able to use the wrong tools of the trade, he should be rewarded for that skill right?

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Zormau" (Mar 26th 2015, 12:26am)


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Thursday, March 26th 2015, 12:28am

Yes you both have a point. I just don't see the point of me overhauling the spread numbers when I cannot simulate the changes myself.
I cannot simulate hit rate for the 4th shot at 24 meters, VISCERAL GAMES CAN. Maybe some of the Symthic gurus can. But I can't do it.

If you are still offended by me going after theoretical TTK and cropping away the recoil and reload stats for the guns, fine. Be like that.
But you have still not shown any of your own calculations showing how to fix Viscerals Original Damage Model by tweaking recoil or spread.

How then, can you ask of me to run simulations that are outside the scope of a 12 hour unpaid damage model overhaul? Show me your calcs!

Lol, dunno if Visceral can.

If Visceral wants someone to overhaul their game ( 8| ), they'll pay for it. I doubt there would be many symthicians who would feel entitled enough to propose a full weapons re-balance for a just-released multi-million-dollar-budget AAA title.

If you are really into it, there many possibilities for doing the simulations. Like hitrater or WoopsyYaya's excel sheet - do'h ninja-Zormau. Or just learn to code and see that it pays off IRL as well ;).
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  • "absol_89" started this thread

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Thursday, March 26th 2015, 12:29am

Hitrate simulator


Cool Thanks. Now tell me how you'd change the recoil and spread numbers of the HCAR and HK-51 to make them viable, if Visceral makes them all 25 min dmg.
These 25 min dmg BR changes are being internally tested right now and Thad made a battlelog thread about it to get our feedback, even on the M-45 and more.

What hitrate would you consider competitive for the HK-51 vs the SCAR-H when accounting for the RPM difference? How would you explain this to non-symthic?

To me this is a very specific and non-accessible question that in itself could take weeks to explain (for just 1 gun). And I could crunch all dmg numbers in one day.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "absol_89" (Mar 26th 2015, 12:41am)


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Thursday, March 26th 2015, 12:40am

I doubt there would be many symthicians who would feel entitled enough to propose a full weapons re-balance for a just-released multi-million-dollar-budget AAA title.
I am available for hire. Can deliver within 7 days.
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Thursday, March 26th 2015, 12:44am

HK51 1.05 instead of 1.25 up recoil. (this is a very subjective thing, I just can't work with the HCAR and HK51's humongous upwards kicks at those low rates of fire - it's very stressful for my head.)
ADS min spread of 0.4 seems awfully arbitrary, I'd get it in line with the other battle rifles' 0.2. The SIPS difference is also very counter-intuitive to me, bringing it down to 0.2 would still leave it less full-auto friendly than the SCAR, but more usable than it is now.
H-recoil might need a slight buff, 0.35 instead of 0.5 right could work.

Note that the spread value balancing gets completely irrelevant once you equip a stock, stubby grip and heavy barrel, leaving you with a 0.35 MAX ADS spread (lower than the base min. value) and only the recoil to fend with.

This still leaves the SCAR-H with an edge in many aspects while the HK51 has much faster bullets, a quicker recoil decrease and slightly better hipspread. The higher H-recoil keeps it somewhat in check with the stubby+stock+hbar combo both guns can equip.

Note that these are just my spontaneous musings and are up for debate. I'd love to hear what Noctyrne, 3VN and rezal think, though I don't expect to see the latter one here anytime soon.

Edit: Oh FFS rezal I was so damn sure you wouldn't bother with this thread for a while longer.
Zormau - Battlelog / Battlefield 4

Memorable quotes not taken yet:


Of course, this ignores the non-constant cross-sectional first moment of area across the chest as well as non-constant material properties of the boob; it would be difficult to perform a more detailed analysis (as in, I'd have to have a shape function AND I'd need to derive a function for elastic modulus as a function of lateral breast coordinate) but whatever. It's 2am and I'm lazy.


I always believed science should be very hands on experience.

You should also answer this question I had posed in that thread: Would you be willing to pay your surgeon more if he was going to use a chainsaw for the opening incision of surgery? Clearly using a chainsaw isn't truly suited for surgery but that doesn't really matter. If he's "skilled" enough to be able to use the wrong tools of the trade, he should be rewarded for that skill right?


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Thursday, March 26th 2015, 12:45am

I doubt there would be many symthicians who would feel entitled enough to propose a full weapons re-balance for a just-released multi-million-dollar-budget AAA title.
I am available for hire. Can deliver within 7 days.

I just looked at the BFH stats for the first time. The derp is strong with this one.

DICE has probably sent the recommendation letter for your services already.
"Less is more? How can that be? How could less be more, that's impossible. More is more." Yngwie Malmsten
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Thursday, March 26th 2015, 12:54am

@Rezal
Really, I'm sure you'd be able to improve upon the current state of affairs a lot quicker than 7 days. More like 24 hours, considering how easy "improvement" should be.
Zormau - Battlelog / Battlefield 4

Memorable quotes not taken yet:


Of course, this ignores the non-constant cross-sectional first moment of area across the chest as well as non-constant material properties of the boob; it would be difficult to perform a more detailed analysis (as in, I'd have to have a shape function AND I'd need to derive a function for elastic modulus as a function of lateral breast coordinate) but whatever. It's 2am and I'm lazy.


I always believed science should be very hands on experience.

You should also answer this question I had posed in that thread: Would you be willing to pay your surgeon more if he was going to use a chainsaw for the opening incision of surgery? Clearly using a chainsaw isn't truly suited for surgery but that doesn't really matter. If he's "skilled" enough to be able to use the wrong tools of the trade, he should be rewarded for that skill right?