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Miffyli

Symthic Developer

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: Mar 21st 2013

Platform: PC

Location: __main__, Finland

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11

Friday, February 5th 2016, 9:23pm

You shouldn't judge which bullet goes to which gun based on name. They started off as somewhat realistic names, but even BF4 had weird ones (smaller round being for bigger gun or somethingsomething). You can see the projectile names on weapon info pages.
Links to users' thread list who have made analytical/statistical/mathematical/cool posts on Symthic:
  • 3VerstsNorth - Analysis of game mechanics in BF4 (tickrates, effects of tickrate, etc)
  • leptis - Analysis of shotguns, recoil, recoil control and air drag.
  • Veritable - Scoring of BF4/BF1 firearms in terms of usability, firing and other mechanics.
  • Miffyli - Random statistical analysis of BF4 battlereports/players and kill-distances. (list is cluttered with other threads).
Sorry if your name wasn't on the list, I honestly can't recall all names : ( . Nudge me if you want to be included

VincentNZ

Holy War? No Thanks.

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: Jul 25th 2013

Platform: PC

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12

Friday, February 5th 2016, 9:46pm

So I am a bit hazy on the HArdline stats, but from what we presume are the values for the M416/M16 bullets, it means they have a drop-off start, where other ARs have already reached their minimum damage? And from what I recall, these two ARs also had a more or less manageable spread and recoil? So what is then the point of using any carbine or AR that does not use the "long range" calibre?

If this truly is what they are balancing for, I have no idea what their intent was.

That being said, why would the PC need specific balancing? DOesn't this overcomplicate things, just because our tickrate is higher?

Miffyli

Symthic Developer

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Posts: 3,645

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: Mar 21st 2013

Platform: PC

Location: __main__, Finland

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13

Friday, February 5th 2016, 9:59pm

Spoiler includes damage models for most weapons, some were skipped because silly stuff I am too lazy to fix now (just say if you want specific gun tho).

BFH CTE damage models

NameSDmgEDmgDOStartDOEnd
Scout_Elite45343090
CAR-5562412850
AKS-74u24121232
MPX2510825
37_Stakeout156818
ACWR24122550
MP718101840
SCAR-H34222050
45T34151540
M16A325134060
M4524122035
Saiga_12156815
RO93319121550
SR-25_ECC342520120
SOCOM16342520120
M191134181030
AKM28183050
G18C2010824
M240B34223060
SA-58_OSW34222050
.40_Pro25181530
FN_FAL34223060
ARM25134060
HCAR34223060
FMG92082535
K10208525
MG3633203040
RS35760302537
G36C24123050
P9024122040
RO933_.300_BLK24153060
CZ-7525151020
KSG-12206515
TEC-924122040
.44_Magnum342012.550
HK5134222050
Saiga_.30834251560
M5_NAVY2082535
RO933_M130181020
AugA324122550
Double-Barrel_Shotgun30538
L85A224122550
M9_TacFlashlight34121020
.410_Jury2581225
M24925182537
SG55324123050
MDC28183050
.300_Knockout90505080
FAMAS24122550
1887206515
Uzi24122035
.357_RS60302537
M12S24122035
M134154065
MG425182545
M110K534182050
M82_.416503410130
R700_LTR905930100
Nail_Gun55451020
PTR-91342520120
Bald_Eagle34221050
M5SD2082535
93R2010824
SG_51034222050
G1725151020
M1A125151535
870P_Magnum206515
.38_Snub25182030
SPAS-12156815
92FS25151020
UMP-4525161530
P22625181530
CAR-5562412850
Scorpion2010824
RPK28183050
F200025134060
AUG_PARA2410820
MP5K2410820
AWM905930100
FN5720121060

(It took less than a hour to half-implement the new parser I use for SWBF to BFH, plus it's way better and cleaner... *sigh* )
Links to users' thread list who have made analytical/statistical/mathematical/cool posts on Symthic:
  • 3VerstsNorth - Analysis of game mechanics in BF4 (tickrates, effects of tickrate, etc)
  • leptis - Analysis of shotguns, recoil, recoil control and air drag.
  • Veritable - Scoring of BF4/BF1 firearms in terms of usability, firing and other mechanics.
  • Miffyli - Random statistical analysis of BF4 battlereports/players and kill-distances. (list is cluttered with other threads).
Sorry if your name wasn't on the list, I honestly can't recall all names : ( . Nudge me if you want to be included

Posts: 242

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: Aug 6th 2014

Platform: PC

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14

Friday, February 5th 2016, 11:20pm



Yep

Spoiler includes damage models for most weapons, some were skipped because silly stuff I am too lazy to fix now (just say if you want specific gun tho)
(It took less than a hour to half-implement the new parser I use for SWBF to BFH, plus it's way better and cleaner... *sigh* )
Oh my. First of all, why in gods name don't the snub and .357 have their projectile files in the weapon maps unlike almost every other weapon.

SECOND OF ALL, WHY DOES THE .357 STILL HAVE ITS DAMAGE. And what is the .357 magnum in the common files for then?

Also, on that note. M1 carbine is the only one untouched. My sides.


Also, why does the stakeout use the weak shotgun shells.

And did they actually also include the Double barrel in the damage nerf? I recall this thing having insane damage per pellet but now its hardly more than the pumps.





.....

Oh dear, the M1A1 is pretty much better than the UMP now.





From the window, to the wall. Too bad that the window was marginally more interesting to stare at

VincentNZ

Holy War? No Thanks.

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: Jul 25th 2013

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15

Friday, February 5th 2016, 11:23pm

This was a mess at release and it still is. There is no formula behind these stats at all. If they should have taken anything from BF4 than it would have been the gun balance.

Posts: 242

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16

Friday, February 5th 2016, 11:26pm

This was a mess at release and it still is. There is no formula behind these stats at all. If they should have taken anything from BF4 than it would have been the gun balance.
Initially, i seconded the idea of not having insanely streamlined weaponstats and actually make every weapon unique and tuned for its usage.


Too bad Visceral doesn't understand how you do that. They should have kept those tags around that they had in the closed Beta Levelcap showed up. You know "manauvrability", "accuracy", "heavy hitter" 'controlability", "close range". Single tags showcasing the main strength of the gun because apperantly they need to be remdinded of what they want a weapon to do

Posts: 278

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: Jun 6th 2014

Platform: PS4

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17

Friday, February 5th 2016, 11:36pm

Suddenly I don't regret getting this for PS4

Miffyli

Symthic Developer

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Posts: 3,645

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: Mar 21st 2013

Platform: PC

Location: __main__, Finland

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18

Friday, February 5th 2016, 11:41pm

Also, why does the stakeout use the weak shotgun shells.

And did they actually also include the Double barrel in the damage nerf? I recall this thing having insane damage per pellet but now its hardly more than the pumps.

I wouldn't trust those shotgun numbers just yet. That was just first output and shotguns are bit wonkier.

Tag thing sounds like a good idea, however I can't imagine it working too well with dozens of weapons. You would end up bunch of very similar weapons or somehow magically invent big group of unique tags.
Links to users' thread list who have made analytical/statistical/mathematical/cool posts on Symthic:
  • 3VerstsNorth - Analysis of game mechanics in BF4 (tickrates, effects of tickrate, etc)
  • leptis - Analysis of shotguns, recoil, recoil control and air drag.
  • Veritable - Scoring of BF4/BF1 firearms in terms of usability, firing and other mechanics.
  • Miffyli - Random statistical analysis of BF4 battlereports/players and kill-distances. (list is cluttered with other threads).
Sorry if your name wasn't on the list, I honestly can't recall all names : ( . Nudge me if you want to be included

VincentNZ

Holy War? No Thanks.

(2,088)

Posts: 2,584

Date of registration
: Jul 25th 2013

Platform: PC

Battlelog:

Reputation modifier: 14

  • Send private message

19

Saturday, February 6th 2016, 12:01am

This was a mess at release and it still is. There is no formula behind these stats at all. If they should have taken anything from BF4 than it would have been the gun balance.
Initially, i seconded the idea of not having insanely streamlined weaponstats and actually make every weapon unique and tuned for its usage.


Too bad Visceral doesn't understand how you do that. They should have kept those tags around that they had in the closed Beta Levelcap showed up. You know "manauvrability", "accuracy", "heavy hitter" 'controlability", "close range". Single tags showcasing the main strength of the gun because apperantly they need to be remdinded of what they want a weapon to do


But you can only do that with so many weapons. Now they included 13 more to the already huge amount so there are no niches left to cover. THat being said, even there the BF3/4 approach works better. Here the weapon classes define the general roles, and the stats define in nuances the special properties of the gun. So you can have PDWs that are very similar to carbines, but with the unique properties of the PDWs. You can have LMGs that work like basic ARs, and so forth. And therefore you can pick your favourite weapon from a chart, and it works. All in all there are still weapons that are less useful, and ARs are the general purpose guns, but in the end they all work, none is truly obsolete. Different in Hardline. Totally.

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: Jun 6th 2014

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20

Saturday, February 6th 2016, 12:47am

How are things gonna get organized when/if these changes go in effect?

Like how we gonna track the different stats between the PC and PS4 versions?