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  • "DANNYonPC" started this thread

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Saturday, January 23rd 2016, 12:46am

Thats one SEXY gun

This post by "colers" (Monday, January 25th 2016, 9:04am) has been deleted by user "yugas42" (Monday, January 25th 2016, 3:27pm) with the following reason: Rule 3

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Monday, January 25th 2016, 2:23pm

So once again the RPK is the best Operator weapon.

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Monday, January 25th 2016, 3:28pm

@colers

You can try that post again in a more constructive way. Thanks.

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Tuesday, January 26th 2016, 9:33am

@colers

You can try that post again in a more constructive way. Thanks.
Very well.



In theme with the rest of the DLC's, it looks like this DLC is once again shaping up to be a dissappointment with multiple weapons being so poorly balanced that they won't add anything to the game. Though this DLC does bring the addition of multiple pieces of "variation" weaponry, and i will give Visceral that they know how to make those right, the other weaponry added is, as has sadly become par of the course, broken or backwards.


Let us start with the AUG A3. The AUG A3 is essentially to the SAR what the FAMAS is to the F2000: A caricature, something that is so much objectively worse that nobody in their right mind would pick it over the other. Once again, it is impossible to see what the developer was going for when balancing this weapon; everything about it seems to be internally contradictive. The AUG seems to be implemented, much like the SAR and L85, intended as a low rate of fire precision weaponry. But it seems very much like a second Famas; it has assault rifle recoil, assault rifle hipfire, exceptionally poor accuracy and of course, the OLD carbine damage model to tip it all off, giving it absolutely mediocre mid-range efficiency. I just for once want a developer to explain the choices that created this gun to me. It seems they really did theirselves a disfavor by removing the property labels they had for each weapon in the closed alpha, because they evidently needed it to clarify what they were going for.

Now, on to the lovely variation weaponry. What bothers me here is that there is a clear technical screw-up here; the reload of the harpoon gun was quite evidently shortened significantly, but its audio was left untouched, resulting in a "rechamber" noise playing even though absolutely no action is happening. The Mammoth gun is even more egregious. Aside from the glaring oversight of it only loading 2 shots while firing 3, it is chambered in a widly inappropriate round. It seems that the developers insisted on cutting corners, and instead of creating a proper .70/.60NE round model to put into the Mammoth gun, they took the wildly inappropriate .30 carbine model and upscaled it to .60 dimensions, reusing the model of the visible round during a M1 reload. Of course, given that you cannot actually headspace a rimless cardridge in a elephant gun barrel without modifications, what we have here is a quite blatant technical shortcoming; especially since they could have used any revolver round and upscaled in instead to get a far more accurate approximation.

The improvised pistol will be spared from criticism due to it being...well, an improvised pistol.

The RPK-74 first of all makes the screw up of being an RPK. You know, the normal, standard, 7.62x39 RPK. Frankly, this is starting to become a bit absurd; this is the third game in a row in which they put the RPK-74 in with the model of a standard RPK, as noted by its magazine. But the balance of this thing is completely out of whack; when you would look at it in the normal stat listing, it pretty much would look like a LMG version of the AKS with more recoil, but if you look at its detailed view, what you see is an absurdly low recoil roof, and, more glaring, one that gets even lower if you move. If the RPK-74 was to get introduced into the game in its current state, it would, however insane it might sound, become the best strafe-fire gun for the operator class. And to top it all off, it has great hipfire. Yeah, a LMG that is the best for its class in mobility. You just try to sail that boat out of the port.

And given that technical oversights are the ongoing theme of this DLC, lets move on to the M1903. Lets just call it the all-class scout, because thats what it is. If you look at zxhpete's video, you can see that the bolt action animation is bugged and it can be fired faster than you actually rechamber it, giving it a bolt action speed that probably approximates the Scout Elite, along with its damage model and its infamous hipfire. And, of course, the reload animation is absurd because apperantly you can now reload an entire M1903 rifle with a single bullet.

The M98B looks like it will render every other normal sniper rifle obsolete

The MP9 on closer inspection actually seems to have some use. It has drasticly different recoil based on stance and is more accurate than the MAC or G18

The MX4 is almost absurd. It is almost identical in stats to the late MP5 Navy, albeit with worse accuracy and less favourable recoil, putting it already with one foot in the grave. But for whatever reason, this weapon uses a completely new bullet that is vastly inferior to the MP5 bullet, having only half its starting range.


The new DMR adds nothing. Its a DMR. What did you expect


The syndicate gun is basically a super HCAR without customization options. The HCAR needs some SERIOUS love before they introduce this thing.



At the end of the day, out of the almost 45 weapons we've gotten with the DLC's, only a third of them were balanced in a way that they made a viable and enjoyable addition to the game. God, i miss UndeadPixels and his insanely streamlined approach to weapon balance

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Tuesday, January 26th 2016, 10:49am

Just to make it clear before I complain, I do not own Hardline, I just played the two betas, read the forums here and looked over the shoulder of my mates playing it. But the reasons why I never considered buying it, hold true with everything new that I read about the game.

First of all, many base weapons and the DLC guns in particular, were ridiculous, why would one expect a Harpoon, or an improvised pistol? This is not Fallout 4. Also A Drilling and the Springfield? I would expect such weapons in the new Call of Juarez or in DayZ, but not in a modern day shooter that is supposed to mimic police vs. criminal fighting, which of course is a ridiculous scenario in itself.

It would have worked though, if Visceral had put some effort into the scenario at release, to either make it more ridiculous to differentiate more from BF4, or to try a serious approach to the theme and differentiate via gameplay mechanics from the rest. At release we got something that played out exactly as BF4, without anything but a nod to the theme for a hefty price. That is where it went wrong.

As for the weapons added in base as in DLCs, the devs suffer a huge problem, way bigger than the balance problems in BF3. Giving each gun a niche is great, but only until you reach a certain amount of weapons. Then you either have to just add new skins with similar stats, or you run into the danger of making certain guns obsolete.
BF4 went the way of differentiating damage by calibre and weapon range by barrel length or weapon class. So whenever you add a new weapon you determinate it's class and calibre and balance and individualize from here. Then they had the room to add some new and more individual weapons like the Grozas.

Visceral had a similar way in the first beta but then tried too hard to make everything fit a role and handled the subsequent changes only individually instead of changing the whole weapon class. BF4 saw an issue (way too late though) that PDWs do not have a lot to offer (mostly the low RPM) and changed the whole class. Therefore they achieved something really close to balance. Visceral saw the same issues but changed one weapon here, another here and so forth and thus creating weapon imbalance even more. Now they add even more curious, I admit, weapons that have different damage models than before. The whole game is lacking consistency to sum it up and this is bad.

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Tuesday, January 26th 2016, 11:20am

Just to make it clear before I complain, I do not own Hardline, I just played the two betas, read the forums here and looked over the shoulder of my mates playing it. But the reasons why I never considered buying it, hold true with everything new that I read about the game.

First of all, many base weapons and the DLC guns in particular, were ridiculous, why would one expect a Harpoon, or an improvised pistol? This is not Fallout 4. Also A Drilling and the Springfield? I would expect such weapons in the new Call of Juarez or in DayZ, but not in a modern day shooter that is supposed to mimic police vs. criminal fighting, which of course is a ridiculous scenario in itself.

It would have worked though, if Visceral had put some effort into the scenario at release, to either make it more ridiculous to differentiate more from BF4, or to try a serious approach to the theme and differentiate via gameplay mechanics from the rest. At release we got something that played out exactly as BF4, without anything but a nod to the theme for a hefty price. That is where it went wrong.

As for the weapons added in base as in DLCs, the devs suffer a huge problem, way bigger than the balance problems in BF3. Giving each gun a niche is great, but only until you reach a certain amount of weapons. Then you either have to just add new skins with similar stats, or you run into the danger of making certain guns obsolete.
BF4 went the way of differentiating damage by calibre and weapon range by barrel length or weapon class. So whenever you add a new weapon you determinate it's class and calibre and balance and individualize from here. Then they had the room to add some new and more individual weapons like the Grozas.

Visceral had a similar way in the first beta but then tried too hard to make everything fit a role and handled the subsequent changes only individually instead of changing the whole weapon class. BF4 saw an issue (way too late though) that PDWs do not have a lot to offer (mostly the low RPM) and changed the whole class. Therefore they achieved something really close to balance. Visceral saw the same issues but changed one weapon here, another here and so forth and thus creating weapon imbalance even more. Now they add even more curious, I admit, weapons that have different damage models than before. The whole game is lacking consistency to sum it up and this is bad.
Exactly. The game doesn't understand its own identity; I mean, in which way are the DLC's memorable? They lack spirit, they lack heart because they lack the foundation. The DLC's are more of the same.

If Visceral had been smart, they would have really sticked to the police aspect of their game; you know, their core identity. Lets start with the weapons; nobody ever wondered why for whatever reason the Uzi, UMP45 and P90 are all criminal guns even though they are THE police weaponry? The faction split, of course, was a mistake to start with. It greatly compounded the issue of low weapon variety and resulted in visceral having to put 25 new free guns into the game. But why didn't they stick to the theme?

I mean, instead of giving us 50 different versions of the american police and filling the weapon selection up mostly with weaponry police wouldn't touch with a 10-foot pole, they could have gone for different police forces and criminal factions; for example, russian police, which have things like the PP-19 Vityaz and Bizon, the ASh12.7 Battle rifle, the VSSK sniper rifle, the entire 9x39mm line-up, the PP2000 machine pistol and some interesting "vintage" guns such as the Nagant revolver. They wouldn't even have to use russian voices, just throw in the interpol excuse and you're golden. And instead of some names that scream "uninspired", they could have named such a DLC "Cold Blood".

A different DLC could then be focussed on the Mexican cartels, using stereotypical weaponry as a theme. The Dual scorpion could have been introduced here, for example.

Another example of an inspired DLC would be one focussed around poaching, with a wildlife map and a sea side map. Bamn, a sensible excuse to put in that lovely harpoon gun and the mammoth gun.





But no, they went for the blandest of bland. Every DLC is utterly forgettable because they couldn't think more than 2 inch out of the box

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Tuesday, January 26th 2016, 4:36pm

These weapons look hilariously fun. Shame that poor balance and no player base are killing this game. It really is a breath of fresh air from the srs bsns that is the modern shooter.

Dual scorpions is hilarious.


Serious question: What are the gameplay flaws of Hardline?

I ask, because I doubt that weapon balance is the only reason, its just the peak of the iceberg, but I dont have the gameplay designers insights to spot the issues. Back in the beta something just felt 'odd'.

Weapon variety is definitely there and not the issue. And I think the setting is too interesting just to let it drop, because of one failed game.
still playin' Motorstorm

  • "DANNYonPC" started this thread

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Tuesday, January 26th 2016, 11:29pm

A few things that can come to mind (as someone who actually really likes the game)

Not completely sticking to the theme (scout helis with secondairy gunners, etc)
RPG's from cars
Fast TTK
Less content on launch than its bigger brother BF4 (that was released for more than a year)

And ofcourse the prejudices:
New dev
New theme
Interest in Battlefield dying after the completely horrible launch of BF4
+ it was announced while BF4 was still an increadible shitshow

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Wednesday, January 27th 2016, 1:24am

Maybe it's just me being a filthy console scrub but I've never had issue with any of those.