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Pastafarianism

Mom's Spaghetti

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61

Monday, May 11th 2015, 12:53pm

Quoted

'm sure platform changes things too. Console players will probably rate V-recoil higher than PC players, due to harder compensation with a controller.

Why do PC players say this? WHY????? WHO KEEPS PERPETUATING THIS? It's not true. Console players just shoot differently (IMO and from the numerous console players I've talked to). It's not the compensation that's difficult (for most people), it's the initial ADS snap to target that's "harder" with a controller, which console players don't bother to learn due to aim assist being there. I blame people like LevelCap who seem to think this.

Well, there is some truth to it. A mouse just gives a player more control. Although (from my experiences) the reason most console players can't control recoil well is NOT the controller's fault, but the player's. Console players on BF (less so in COD) are normally more "chill." "Lax." And generally more casual. My prime example here is Symthic.com. Even with the 4 different consoles running BF4/BF:H, a large percentage (if not a majority) of people here are PC players. This site allows players to have a competitive edge, which console players don't normally waste time researching. Meanwhile, you see elite PC sweaty tryhards trying to see why the HK-51 is statistically worse than the SA-58. Or how the CZ3A1 is similar to the SR-2 in damage output (I pulled that one out of my ass).
Hell, most console players probably don't know what CTE is! I met a sniper who said the CSLR4 was the best sniper in the game (pre-patch!!!!) And was better than the SRR61. Then he said the Scout was amazing, and when asked what it's end damage was, he responded "I don't know, enough to get a 1 shot kill at all ranges."
WAT

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Master of nothing, mediocre at everything... except dropping ammo boxes. I do that like it's my fucking job.
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You're into Chinese nowadays?
No, but i am into immature jokes about sexual intercourse with cats with a pinch of stereotypical asian accent. :D

Thanks razal.

I don't even have a big neck.

I didn't know vertigo could disrupt one's sense of size.


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Monday, May 11th 2015, 7:59pm

There are so many people on earth! Please dont put a bunch of them in one category just because you have found an outstanding specimen.
still playin' Motorstorm

Pastafarianism

Mom's Spaghetti

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Monday, May 11th 2015, 8:12pm

Quoted

There are so many people on earth! Please dont put a bunch of them in one category just because you have found an outstanding specimen.

"Outstanding."
Though "it" is an obvious outlier, many console players are just more casual.

Symthic's Friendly Neighborhood Pastafarian


Master of nothing, mediocre at everything... except dropping ammo boxes. I do that like it's my fucking job.
BAND RECOMMENDATION OF THE WEEK (or really till whenever I update it): I don't really have much if I'm being honest. Give me some metalcore recommendations and I'll try 'em out
Good Quotes Ahead:

Spoiler Spoiler


Quoted


You're into Chinese nowadays?
No, but i am into immature jokes about sexual intercourse with cats with a pinch of stereotypical asian accent. :D

Thanks razal.

I don't even have a big neck.

I didn't know vertigo could disrupt one's sense of size.


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64

Wednesday, May 13th 2015, 7:06pm

I'm unfamiliar with what FSM is. Mind explaining it and what it stands for to me?

CobaltRose

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Wednesday, May 13th 2015, 7:53pm

I'm unfamiliar with what FSM is. Mind explaining it and what it stands for to me?

FSM = First Shot Multiplier. What it does is multiplies the vertical recoil on either the first shot of an automatic burst. For example, say you let loose five rounds on automatic with the SCAR-H: the first shot is going to see 1.6 times (1.75x when the spring patch drops) more vertical recoil than any other shot in that burst. For weapons in semi-auto it is applied on every shot, unless you somehow manage to get the to fire at maximum fire rate (which is pretty difficult outside of using a macro).

One thing to note, though: weapons that are switched to burst-fire mode have that FSM moved to the last shot of the burst, which helps to maintain accuracy throughout the burst.
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This post by "Pastafarianism" (Thursday, May 14th 2015, 1:58am) has been deleted by user "yugas42" (Thursday, May 14th 2015, 2:59am) with the following reason: off topic, rule 11

  • "Veritable" started this thread

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67

Friday, May 15th 2015, 6:42am

Made some what I hope to be the final changes before I push on and start adding more guns.
  1. I made a 4th category called Recoil, and moved all recoil-related Useability stats into it. It now contains the following: Total V-Recoil to be countered in the simulation, V-Recoil Per Shot, and FSM. This has the effect of making V-Recoil carrying a lot more weight in the Overall Ranking, which make some sense as it is the most immediate thing the shooter feels.
  2. Useability now contain H-Recoil deflection, Reload and Velocity.
  3. Added 10m ADS - Moving and 25m ADS - Not Moving Hitrates and their respective Damage values. This has the effect of shortening the average engagement distance that this simulation is showing, going from ~51.66m down to 43.125m. This gives automatic weapons with high RoF a better chance to shine through. The Overall Ranking now no longer clumps all the slow-firing DMRs on top, which is nice.

Moving V-Recoil and related items into its own Category also produced some more sensible Recommendations for the Attachment Combinations. The MTAR-21, for example, this Google Sheets is now recommending Comp + AFG with Comp + Ergo and HBar + AFG right after it. Ak5C and G36C, both Carbines that I rave about the FSM when using AFG, both recommend HBar + AFG. ACE 52 CQB and ACE 21 still recommend HBar + Ergo. What does it like for the M60 and MG4? HBar + Stubby, go figure.

Is it perfect? No, as MB + AFG is dominating in the DMRs front, but I feel that we are close.

Here are the new-look graphs for the QBU-88 and MTAR-21:



  • "Veritable" started this thread

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68

Thursday, May 28th 2015, 3:24am

All Useability stats updated with 2015 Spring Patch information for the guns listed. It now has 5 components and weighed as such:

40% V-Recoil Per Shot
20% FSM Difference to 1
20% H-Recoil Deflection
10% Velocity
10% Reload

Groza-1 Carbine added, but since I've had to blow up all the Hitrater entries due to now doing 10x simulations per gun instead of the previous 8, you can't really draw conclusions yet. In order to compare it with SOMETHING, though, I have also completed the ACE 52 CQB Carbine with Comp, so see how the 2 7.62mm Carbines stack up against each other. Here is the result:



If we just look at the ACE 52 Comp + AFG (as in, exact same setup as the Groza-1), the ACE is slightly worse at Reload, same Velocity, slightly better V-Recoil, slightly better FSM, same H-Recoil Deflection, resulting in slightly better Useability.

Groza-1 is a better up to 50m, but the ACE 52 is quite a bit better further on.

The problem for the Groza-1 is that the ACE 52 can also equip Ergo, which then matches the Groza with up to 50m damage output. Further away then Ergo vs. AFG is no difference, so the ACE maintains its lead.

When you combine everything, the Groza-1 is slightly better than ACE 52 CQB Comp + AFG, so if you insist on using the same attachments for both then use the Groza. Put the Ergo on the ACE 52 Comp then it is the better overall choice.

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "Veritable" (May 28th 2015, 11:17pm)


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69

Saturday, June 6th 2015, 9:56am

Hopefully finalized the Useability score. Here is how the current Overall score is derived:

50% Useability - Firing Mode (Semi, Burst, Automatic; 10%) Reload (10%) Velocity (17.5%) V-Recoil Per Shot (30%) FSM Difference to 1.0 (20%) H-Recoil Deflection (12.5%)
25% Mobile Damage Hitrate x Bullet Damage at Range - 10m Hipfire Moving (10%) 20m Hipfire Not Moving (10%) 30m ADS Moving (10%) 40m ADS Moving (10%) 50m ADS Moving (10%)
25% Ranged Damage Hitrate x Bullet Damage at Range - 60m ADS Not Moving (10%) 70m ADS Not Moving (10%) 80m ADS Not Moving (10%) 90m ADS Not Moving (10%) 100m ADS Not Moving (10%)

You might think the components for Useability is weird. After finishing all the Carbine and DMR Hitrater entries, I decided to take what is quite universally accepted as "middle of the road" in terms of useability, the ACE 21 CQB, and started tweaking the components until the range of scores produced an average that is right smack in the middle of the 15 entries. That is the formula that I will use going forward.

With the 10 simulations per attachment combo, and the Spring 2015 Patch changes, I have re-done the list... the result of which you can see in the OP.

@Pastafarianism

You will be glad to note that your beloved A-91 is no longer last :D That is mostly because the Groza-1 is so much worse ;(



In terms of barrel attachments, MB > HBar = Comp > Naked > Supp.
In terms of underbarrel, AFG > Ergo > Stubby.

Recommend MB + Ergo if you believe in Bullpup + Ergo, MB + AFG if you think Bullpup is good enough by itself, or Comp + Ergo if you want to deal damage above almost all else. If using Supp, then pair with AFG.

Pastafarianism

Mom's Spaghetti

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70

Sunday, June 7th 2015, 3:36pm

Thanks Veritable! I knew a super low V-recoil would help it at some point. My only issue is that AFG is really not that great on it. Especially with no HBar. The V-recoil is so low that I can't even fathom using anything but a stubby (Bullpup mods are good enough). Compensator is really the way to go, maybe suppressor or HBar as well. I can't agrue with the numbers I guess, but my personal experiences just don't match up.

Fuck the PP-2000

Symthic's Friendly Neighborhood Pastafarian


Master of nothing, mediocre at everything... except dropping ammo boxes. I do that like it's my fucking job.
BAND RECOMMENDATION OF THE WEEK (or really till whenever I update it): I don't really have much if I'm being honest. Give me some metalcore recommendations and I'll try 'em out
Good Quotes Ahead:

Spoiler Spoiler


Quoted


You're into Chinese nowadays?
No, but i am into immature jokes about sexual intercourse with cats with a pinch of stereotypical asian accent. :D

Thanks razal.

I don't even have a big neck.

I didn't know vertigo could disrupt one's sense of size.