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71

Tuesday, April 15th 2014, 1:02pm

To start off with, any class can run around with a carbine like the Mtar or ACW. These carbines are flat out fantastic up close - but they aren't shabby at medium ranges either. If you want a 1000 RPM weapon, look no further than the Famas - it kills between 4-6 bullets compared to 4-8 on most PDWs (Cz-3a1, for example). On top of it, some PDWs only deal 20 damage up close, meaning it actually takes an extra bullet to kill. An Mtar can kill much faster than these weapons, has equal if not less recoil (including rpm in calculations) and does better at range. All in, PDWs in general are good at close range but shotguns and carbines - all kit weapons - eat into their niche like it's a tasty chicken pot pie.

I'm definitely not asserting that PDWs have any kind of versatility, but even an ROF monster like the MTAR loses out to the CZ-3A1 when you're playing ring-around-the-shipping-crate near an objective. The FAMAS fires at a similar rate, but doesn't stand up elsewise at short range, and the difference in reload times is insane. Shotguns can also be close-range monsters, but I feel they are less reliable (a slight misjudgment or a little network hiccup, and your one clutch shot goes awry), and several of the PDWs can kill and then be ready to kill the next guy before the 870 can.

Quoted

The positives of running a PDW do not outweigh the negatives of running a PDW. You give up ranged ability for close range domination when you don't have to give it up at all.

Only in certain circumstances. If you need some ranged punch, by all means, choose a carbine, but if you don't, there is a niche tool waiting for you.

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: Mar 9th 2014

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72

Tuesday, April 15th 2014, 1:28pm

Dice could, at least, buff their suppressed muzzle velocity (280-300 ms)

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73

Tuesday, April 15th 2014, 1:29pm

Fun fact: PDWs from BF3 received only nerfs (unless we count the 0.4 ADS spread lol) and became engi-only, while carbine became all-class and remained largely the same, if not better due to 0.3 ADS spread (but that's negligible).
What 3Verts said holds true, but i still think they should have a mobility advantage (read: better spread) while ADSing; like others said they already have a crapton of disadvantages, a buff to their spread wouldn't make them any close to OP (considering thy're class specific).
Just by going back to BF3 PDWs ("standard ones", not counting the VAL) would make them infinitely better in their niche,being able to effectively saturate CQC areas (thanks to 0.6 or whatever low Inc per shot). Fix the number of magazines (like Dodo said), make the muzzle velocity higher than 250 m/s while suppressed and maybe make the low damage ones penetrate body armor and there you are, viable PDWs.
That being said, there's a long ass way before these guns will be anything close to competitive and i'm more than sure that BF4 will keep this "kind" of SMGs.
Clean signature best signature

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74

Tuesday, April 15th 2014, 4:04pm

If spread increase affects hip spread increase then definitely reduce that.
It does. In fact, spread increase was one of the things that made BF3 PDWs so good at hipfire: all but the AS VAL, M5K and PDW-R have 0.6 spread increase per shot, which is roughly half of what the BF4 high ROF/capacity/damage PDWs (P90, JS2, AS VAL, MP7, CZ-3A1, MX4, UMP-45) have.
Wait a minute, does this mean that the stubby grip actually improves hip fire in this sense?

Oh and don't forget in BF3 laser sight had a 0.5 hip spread multiplier, I think it's 0.75 in BF4? To make the BF4 PDW hipfire base spread as good as that of BF3 they'd have to make the base hip spread 0.67 (with laser sight = 0.5, same as BF3 1.0 hip spread, with laser sight = 0.5) And then that would mean the P90/PDW-R would need to be even better like 0.5 base hip spread or something because bullpup lol

VincentNZ

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75

Tuesday, April 15th 2014, 4:30pm

Wasn't there something different about how spread and recoil worked in BF3 in comparison to BF4?

Take the MP7 for example, it had a total h-recoil of 0.9 while it now has of 0.6. Yet I never felt that recoil compensation was a real problem in BF3 with any weapon. Generally statwise, the weapons of BF4 look more controllable, but in reality can not hit shit. Well obviously the higher spread increase ranging from 0.3 to 0.6 is harsh and the min spread nerf of 0.2-0.4 while moving is harsh, but I never thought that recoil played such a minor role in BF3.

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76

Tuesday, April 15th 2014, 4:34pm

if you ask me, PDW damage should be increased to 30 max, this way they do more damage at close range but eventually become out classed by carbines and ARs at longer ranges (45-60m) and other PDWs like the UMP-9 and PP2000 just need to have minimum damage increased to 14


am I the only person who enjoys rush?

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77

Tuesday, April 15th 2014, 4:47pm

Wasn't there something different about how spread and recoil worked in BF3 in comparison to BF4?

Take the MP7 for example, it had a total h-recoil of 0.9 while it now has of 0.6. Yet I never felt that recoil compensation was a real problem in BF3 with any weapon. Generally statwise, the weapons of BF4 look more controllable, but in reality can not hit shit. Well obviously the higher spread increase ranging from 0.3 to 0.6 is harsh and the min spread nerf of 0.2-0.4 while moving is harsh, but I never thought that recoil played such a minor role in BF3.
I blame the visual recoil

ToTheSun!

Be Creative.

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78

Tuesday, April 15th 2014, 4:55pm

if you ask me, PDW damage should be increased to 30 max

There are many things wrong about that which you, very clearly, haven't considered.

1. UMP-45 40+ damage?
2. low bullet velocity rounds dealing more damage than 5.56 and 7.62 NATO?

C0llis

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79

Tuesday, April 15th 2014, 7:53pm

If spread increase affects hip spread increase then definitely reduce that.
It does. In fact, spread increase was one of the things that made BF3 PDWs so good at hipfire: all but the AS VAL, M5K and PDW-R have 0.6 spread increase per shot, which is roughly half of what the BF4 high ROF/capacity/damage PDWs (P90, JS2, AS VAL, MP7, CZ-3A1, MX4, UMP-45) have.
Wait a minute, does this mean that the stubby grip actually improves hip fire in this sense?

Oh and don't forget in BF3 laser sight had a 0.5 hip spread multiplier, I think it's 0.75 in BF4? To make the BF4 PDW hipfire base spread as good as that of BF3 they'd have to make the base hip spread 0.67 (with laser sight = 0.5, same as BF3 1.0 hip spread, with laser sight = 0.5) And then that would mean the P90/PDW-R would need to be even better like 0.5 base hip spread or something because bullpup lol
Yes and no. The stubby improves both standing and moving hipfire via lower spread increase, but the ergo beats it out overall simple because it is so much better for moving hipfire (and ADS).

I agree that DICE should lower base hipfire overall for PDWs, something around 0.70 - 0.67 would be reasonable because it would give ~0.5 with laser and running a suppressor would be more viable both with and without the laser. The bullpups would get insane hipfire accuracy if they were buffed in a similar fashion though, but DICE should have treated all PDWs (barring the AS VAL) equally from the get-go due to their small, portable nature. Come to think of it: DICE should just change all PDWs (sans the AS VAL) to bullpups, remove the bullpup penalty to ADS accuracy for PDWs and lower spread increase across the board -> profit.

Things people said

And reading Youtube comments still gives me Turbo Cancer.

It really is quite frustrating when Helen Keller sets up her LMG in the only doorway in/out of an area.

What kind of question is that? Since when is cheese ever a bad idea?

Hardline is a fun and sometimes silly Cops and Robbers sorta thing and I think that's great. Or it would be if it didn't suck.

ToTheSun!

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80

Tuesday, April 15th 2014, 8:57pm

Come to think of it: DICE should just change all PDWs (sans the AS VAL) to bullpups, remove the bullpup penalty to ADS accuracy for PDWs and lower spread increase across the board -> profit.

That's not short of making the PDW-R OP.

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