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  • "HolyBalls111" started this thread

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Tuesday, March 18th 2014, 4:05pm

PP-2000: No need for a buff. 650 RPM, 25 damage, low recoil, and this gun wrecks enemies. I was initially skeptical when I picked up for my Battlepack run, but to my surprise, this thing was a beast.

CBJ-MS: 22 damage, 700 RPM. I had the same thoughts about this as the PP-2000. Thought it'd suck. Wrecked with it.

JS2: It was basicaly a slightly inferior P90. And I love the P90. Had no issues using it either.

None of these "sucky" PDWs are crap at all. All the PDWs are viable at close range and I don't think they need any significant rebalancing. Aside from the outlier called teh AS-VAL. No idea what it's doing here.

In fact, although people hate on PDWs for their shortcomings, they're actually a very fun weapon class to use. And I honestly don't think any of them need balancing. Not once was I killed using one and thought, "Man, this thing sucks ass."



I do admit I have fun using the PDW's, simply because of their mobility. When I first used the CBJ, I was surprised how well I did (most of its advantage is in the magazine), but before that I had really only been using the MX4 (which has terrible recoil). However, .45 h recoil in either direction mags holding down the trigger like you would with an LMG simply a nightmare, I kept on being better by guns like the G36. Now I rarely use PDWS other than the MP7 or CZ (not a personal fan of the UMP, but its good) and occasionally the PDR just because I love the gun.
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@revic_crew

What Rezal said is right. The SAR-21, QBZ series, and the U-100 all with <=650 RPM are capable of CQC engagements. It follows that PDWs with similar stats should do the same like the PP-2000 which has the added benefit of good hip fire and a high capacity magazine. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying RPM isn't an important factor in CQC, just that saying the slower RPM of the PP-2000 and their like are a death sentence is wrong.


Yeah, but if the PP2000 is to stay at 650 I feel like giving it less recoil (something along the lines of the SAR) would make more sense.

  • "HolyBalls111" started this thread

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Tuesday, March 18th 2014, 4:13pm

Also I find the JS2 to be significantly better than the P90, which I find almost unusable; the JS2 feels slightly less unusable.

And just because you wreck people with CBJ does not make it a good gun.



Probably b/c the P90 has .5 - .5 h recoil. Also, I've been repeatedly killed by G36's at close range when using the CZ simply because they had faster aim and were better players, but I think we can all agree the G36 needs a buff (whether in RPM or not). Some people will just use guns because they look cool, but at the same time, it makes no sense to have guns in the game like the CBJ (the CBJ has uncontrollable horizontal recoil but a 50 round mag) or any low TTK PDW (especially if they still have a good amount of recoil) that contradict their own purpose

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Tuesday, March 18th 2014, 4:16pm

@HolyBalls111

The PP-2000 has recoil?
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Tuesday, March 18th 2014, 4:25pm

44 mag=more recoil than usual
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  • "HolyBalls111" started this thread

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Tuesday, March 18th 2014, 4:29pm

@HolyBalls111

The PP-2000 has recoil?


About as much as the AK5C, which is 50 rpm. Obviously not the grand scale of things, not that much recoil, but I really see no reason in using this gun unless you just like how it looks, which I certainly don't.
44 mag=more recoil than usual


That's why theres the MP7, and JS2. What good is a 44 mag anyway at only 650 rpm?

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Tuesday, March 18th 2014, 4:43pm

Considering I shoot a 30 mag at 650 rpm all the time with lots of success, I'd say that sounds pretty good.
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Tuesday, March 18th 2014, 5:49pm

Funny thing that PDWs get worse mov. spread than carbines... And less damage. And more base spread. And more recoil. And less bullet velocity. Yeah.
Don't get me wrong their hipfire niche is useful for, well, sub-20m engagements and i do love these guns but to say that they are not in need of some kind of attention (maybe not even in this game) is a bit bold if you ask me. My n.1 buff for all pdws would honestly be the moving spread. Sure having a 0.4-0.4 spread gun might be considered heresy by some people, but look at all the downsides they have compared to carbines. A nice thing would also be to lower their spread increase, a 0.117 increase per shot is just silly for a gun that barely kills in 5 shots up close (Armor lol). They did scale the increase per shot with the damage (34 damage guns getting it higher) why not do the same for lower damaging weapons?

There are a lot of deisgn and balance decisions that i don't understand regarding PDWs.
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Tuesday, March 18th 2014, 6:44pm

@Spectre

I also think that a lower spread increase for <25 damage PDW's is a good idea.
For most 25 damage weapons it is 0.00013 spread increase per RPM. Reduce it to 0.00011 for <25 damage PDW's and the MP7 would have equal spread increase to an 800 RPM weapon. Sounds good to me.

Otherwise I think PDW's are mostly fine atm, too bad they're only for the engineer class.
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Tuesday, March 18th 2014, 7:08pm

@revic_crew
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PP-2000:

Spoiler Spoiler



ROF for CQ situations is overrated. I use slow and fast firing weapons and don't feel a substantial difference in the 'win rates' of CQ encounters. A faster ROF weapon will not make up for getting shot at first by a decent skilled player using a slower ROF weapon, and it sure as hell doesn't make up for being on the bad end of the 'lag' - in that regard even a FAMAS won't save you against a SAR-21 user who knows what he is doing.

Edit:

@HolyBalls111

I'd rather use the PP-2000 over the P90, MP7, or JS, because it's easier to use at medium range and the ammo is easier to manage when flanking a group of enemies.

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "stellar" (Mar 18th 2014, 7:14pm)


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Wednesday, March 19th 2014, 1:52am

If we have to compare weapons than we have to at least do so on an equal basis.

I had a round yesterday where I went 81-15 or something with the G36, which is surely not the best weapon in the carbine portfolio. It might be totally different in the next round though. Even if I could pull it off for the whole 510 kills, and putting personal preference aside, I would know that almost every carbine would be better just by judging from the stats.

Now when I pick up the PP-2000 and can do all that stuff again I will still know that the M-Tar would likely yield better results all around.

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