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21

Sunday, March 9th 2014, 8:17pm

To be honest, I'm not worried about the ACE 23 as much as the AEK. If I had to choose which gun I thought was the most OP, I'd chose the AEK (ok, maybe now the compact 45, but...). I'm constantly getting beat by it when I'm using the CZA3 or MTAR, two CQB weapons that should be able to beat it. I know it has a high FSM and longer long reload but it essentially makes the F2000 pointless and manages to beat even the highest TTK PDWs at close range.
The problem is not that the AEK is too good, the problem is that the F2000 has shit stats (excessive recoil and reload time) and that PDWs in general don't have good enough hip fire (min spread and spread increase) to make them as viable in CQB as they should be.


True about the F2000 (mainly the h recoil problem), but I don't think PDW hip fire is the issue (because they have much better hip fire than the AEK). It's the fact that many of the fastest firing ones (not including the CZA3 or the new saving grace, the SR2M), actually are not even 4 shot kills up close and can end up taking as many as ten shot to kill thanks to armor (P90, MP7, JS2). And others are just pure shit because they have a lower rpm than most Assault Rifles (PP-2000, CBJ).

C0llis

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22

Sunday, March 9th 2014, 8:33pm

To be honest, I'm not worried about the ACE 23 as much as the AEK. If I had to choose which gun I thought was the most OP, I'd chose the AEK (ok, maybe now the compact 45, but...). I'm constantly getting beat by it when I'm using the CZA3 or MTAR, two CQB weapons that should be able to beat it. I know it has a high FSM and longer long reload but it essentially makes the F2000 pointless and manages to beat even the highest TTK PDWs at close range.
The problem is not that the AEK is too good, the problem is that the F2000 has shit stats (excessive recoil and reload time) and that PDWs in general don't have good enough hip fire (min spread and spread increase) to make them as viable in CQB as they should be.


True about the F2000 (mainly the h recoil problem), but I don't think PDW hip fire is the issue (because they have much better hip fire than the AEK). It's the fact that many of the fastest firing ones (not including the CZA3 or the new saving grace, the SR2M), actually are not even 4 shot kills up close and can end up taking as many as ten shot to kill thanks to armor (P90, MP7, JS2). And others are just pure shit because they have a lower rpm than most Assault Rifles (PP-2000, CBJ).
Yes, the low damage is a contributing factor. However, PDWs don't (or shouldn't in the case of the current PDW balance) rely on "raw DPS" to kill in CQB - instead they are(/should be) able to get effectively lower TTK than conventional weapons up close due to them not needing to ADS (which takes ~0.25 seconds IIRC). Giving them normal damage models would just make them into bad carbines, it is more reasonable to make them better at hipfire, which is where PDWs should shine.

We are drifting a bit off-topic now, but I think that if the PDWs were given buffs to hipfire and the ability to ignore Armor up close through buffs to max damage they would become far more viable and popular on the battlefield.

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And reading Youtube comments still gives me Turbo Cancer.

It really is quite frustrating when Helen Keller sets up her LMG in the only doorway in/out of an area.

What kind of question is that? Since when is cheese ever a bad idea?

Hardline is a fun and sometimes silly Cops and Robbers sorta thing and I think that's great. Or it would be if it didn't suck.

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23

Sunday, March 9th 2014, 8:51pm

Ok so it can work for long range, but it is much better for short range. Now that I used it for the first time since the update, I can definitely feel something is different.
L85 is a jack of all trades its decent at everything including long range. The reload was so long thaat it really isn't great at CQC, so I don't get why you think that it's the L85's strength.
I really don't agree with you. Especially on 32 player Locker servers, the L85A2 was BEASTLY. 31 bullets is more than enough to take out 2 enemies. If there is 3, well, then, may the force be with you. The L85A2 performs allright at longer ranges, but I think I said it before, the L85A2 really fitted my run and gun like a madman style.

Anyway about the PDWs. They are quite awkward, since only about 5 of them are any good (CZ, UMPs, SR-2 and VAL), and the rest are just hindered by weird damage models. I mean, the SR-2 has the best hipfire, ever, and 900Rpm and 26 damage up close. Actually quite balanced against the VAL, the CZ and the UMPs.

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24

Sunday, March 9th 2014, 9:56pm

Ok so it can work for long range, but it is much better for short range. Now that I used it for the first time since the update, I can definitely feel something is different.
L85 is a jack of all trades its decent at everything including long range. The reload was so long thaat it really isn't great at CQC, so I don't get why you think that it's the L85's strength.

more than jack of all trades it is jack of nothing,i'll make you see why,le'ts start from the basics:
is it good for multiple target engaging? no,this due to the very very slow recoil recovery and reload speed.
is it good against 1vs1?well,for that anything can be good in the right circumstances.
is it good in close range? should be,but the long reload and the not-so-good 750 rof makes it bad for cq.
is it good for mid range? maybe,still,for mid range an m416 would be a way better choice,as at that dstance the only good thing of the l85 wuold be the recoil,but then,is it really that hard to control an m416?
is it good for long range? kind of,the low recoil helps,but with that slow recoil recovery and bad ads spread,you won't do much.
now then,what difference could do a 800 rpm?

simple:give it an edge and make it different,as of now you saw that it has literally no advantadge over anything especially when compared to the m416 other than for the recoil,but with a rof of 800,it'll make an actual choice for mid-close range,as it'll give you a reason to use that hipfire bonus.(because honestly,hipfiring over 25 meters it's a suicide)

so yeah,as of now,it has stats that would be awesome for a normal AR,but pretty useless for a bullpup,clearly said.

when i look at the new l85,it's like looking at a cat that tries to be a dog,and can do it,kind of,but it'll obviously would live better by being what it should be,in this,case an hipfire bullpup that has a slightly longer range than things like the f2000 but less than stuff like m416 and ace23,as of now,it just tries to do something it can't do.
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25

Monday, March 10th 2014, 12:48am

L85 seems to have no niche to fill now. Prior to the patch I found it to be pretty effective at mid to long range. However now I find myself losing firefights I know I would have won just a few weeks ago. 800 RPM is the perfect balance for both CQC and mid to long range engagements IMO. Dice needs to stop focusing so much on realism of the firerates of weapons, because in real like no two weapons will cycle at the exact same rate.

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26

Monday, March 10th 2014, 2:31am

I really don't agree with you. Especially on 32 player Locker servers, the L85A2 was BEASTLY. 31 bullets is more than enough to take out 2 enemies. If there is 3, well, then, may the force be with you. The L85A2 performs allright at longer ranges, but I think I said it before, the L85A2 really fitted my run and gun like a madman style.

Hate to be "that guy", but I simply must point out how (a.) 31 bullets is a standard magazine size for ARs, with the exception of the SCAR and the FAMAS, and (b.) the exceedingly long reload can be fucking suicide unless you have superior reload and trigger discipline and/or use a suppressor all the time. If anything the horizontal recoil and FSM made it not just decent but excellent at mid-long range engagements.

There are many other guns that suit a run-and-gun aggressive playstyle: the ACW-R for instance is incredible, there's also the AEK with a much faster tactical reload. If anything the L85's really nice stats being balanced by the karate-chop reload make it more suited to mid-long range than anything else. I do agree that I didn't really see the need for the nerf to 750 RPM since the shitty reload time made it horrible in areas with multiple CQC engagements already, and so balanced out the great mid-long range performance. Now you might as well use an M416 or ACE.

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27

Monday, March 10th 2014, 2:41am

800 rpm was roughly the minimum RoF to be viable up close, if you ask me. From my personal experience, you can compensate for about 100 rpm in difference between weapons with skill/experience, but more than that is rough. And with all of the 880-900 rpm weapons that are really good (AEK, ACR, MTAR, Val, etc.), 800 rpm is the floor RoF for me, if I'm in run-and-gun mode. A change of 50 rpm isn't too much, percentage-wise, but it completely changes its niche.
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28

Monday, March 10th 2014, 2:42am

Bullpup hipfire is stronger than you might think.
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29

Monday, March 10th 2014, 3:36am

This is true in general; however, with the Shorty available for all classes and the M26 on the same class as the L85, I don't find AR hipfire relevant very often. That's probably just a quirk of my playstyle though, to be honest.
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30

Monday, March 10th 2014, 8:04am

When they fix the recoil recovery L85 is prolly in the place where it should be. 750 rpm is fine for mid rangy ARs. L85 vs M416 has L85 with edge on CQB to early mid range and M416 with an edge from late mid to long range. And when you compare it to other bullpup ARs it's now right in the middle of QBZ and F2000 with RPM and recoil.

When L85 came out it was assumed the 800 rpm was just a place holder for it's true rpm because it was just a little bit too good.